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Reason Smash/Sweep will not be nerfed

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Reason Smash/Sweep will not be nerfed

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
01.18.2013 , 02:03 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
Sages have to spec hybrid to be viable...
Tangent: for each class/roll, how many viable PvP specs are there? I guess you could refine (complicate) the question further by discussing viable specs for each {class, role, warzone} combination.

I know that for healers, a bubblestun hybrid is considered far superior to a 31pt healer. How about DPS?

Quote:
... this shouldn't be happening really
Why not? the set of viable PvP specs is going to be smaller than the set of possible specs. What is the ideal number of viable specs per class/role?

TANGENT: what sage specs do the top rated WZ teams run?

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
01.18.2013 , 02:03 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
I have a lowbie sorc running a similar spec as you, mostly just madness due to limited tree abilities (don't play it that often, still low level, use it for crafting mainly) and I have pvped on it and had fun, even managed to solo every class at least once. Though, that doesn't mean that I can solo every class, that simply means that I happened to solo bad players of every class at least once. I don't like running away to heal myself, don't like getting focussed for just being a sorc, even if I'm dps spec'd, so I don't often pvp on my sorc, but with things as they are now, I would never bother pvping on that toon in 50 pvp.

And yeah, I agree, sorcs could use some buffs, give them a "force armor" buff to increase their armor rating similar to the deception armor buff for sins, that alone would increase the survivability quite a bit. Damage seems fine, at least based on my lowbie pvp experiences. I'd prefer buffs to survivability than buffs to damage, that alone would make the class a lot stronger.


As for the monitoring announcement.......okay, so a moderator posted months ago that smash was going to be monitored? And now 4 months later and countless threads about it being OP later it's still being only "monitored" (assuming they've even been monitoring it for the past 4 months) without a word of input from any of the devs about a nerf? Again, I'm going to take that as "working as intended" with no intention of a nerf/redesign/balance/etc.

People complained about stunbubbles a lot less and that almost immediately got a response from the devs. It seems as though if anything is related to a jugg/mara, the devs will only give buffs and ignore ALL qqing on the forums, but if it's ANY other class, nerf away! mercs/sorcs/sins/operatives/etc.
Did this somehow become a civil conversation?

IDK... I find bubbles to be the bigger problem here... no one was ever asking for more CC.

And the smash buff came in on the Dec 5th patch if I'm not mistaken. Hardly 4 months.

If you think your sorc is getting focused a lot now... wait until 50. Which is why I run that spec... need all the defense you can get at 50 and with that spec you can still put up some nice DPS.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
01.18.2013 , 02:22 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
Giving sages more burst is tricky without making them OP. I dont care what they do, but smash and bubble stunning has made pvp very very boring.
Not if you buff project/shock. Shock's got a 9(?) second cooldown and costs a $*%^ ton of force, so it's unlikely that it would be used indiscriminately as soon as it comes off cooldown and mess up sustained damage. Sorc would run out of force (at least, madness and madness heavy hybrids would, who are the ones who both need burst the most and have the best talents for shock). Only thing I use shock for now is for mobile damage while kiting and sometimes as an execute. If shock got a 50% damage increase...I'm not so certain that would change what I use shock for. Would certainly make duels go quicker though.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.18.2013 , 02:26 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
That would be a fair trade off, make the bubble mezz self cast only, and baseline for all trees and is be happy.
It also would provide reason to interrupt TKT/FL (adding complexity to the game dynamics). And punish enemies for allowing the class to free cast (Do anyone really care if a DPS Sage is free casting unless they are interfering with taking a node?)
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Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
01.18.2013 , 02:33 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
It also would provide reason to interrupt TKT/FL (adding complexity to the game dynamics). And punish enemies for allowing the class to free cast (Do anyone really care if a DPS Sage is free casting unless they are interfering with taking a node?)
I interrupt it all the time... not because it's effective.... but just to be annoying.

*lightning spam... lightning spam.... light... wait... w t f... does it have a cool down?*

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
01.18.2013 , 02:38 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
There is a difference. Stun bubbles are..
1. applying the incorrect amount of resolve
2. able to be activated by right clicking them in the buff bar
this is broken.

Smash is not broken, it may need an adjustment. As with all other damage/healing abilities it is being reviewed for for a major re-balance. I can understand if you're unhappy they didn't make that a priority over more cartel market additions. No reason to get defensive toward other players about it.
Let me clarify, I wasn't complaining about the lack of action on fixing stunbubbles, I was contrasting the response to them by developers with the utter lack of a response by developers on lolsmash. The fact that they even mentioned they were going to adjust stunbubbles is good enough for me. Even if it's 3 months from now, I'm fine with that, since it's more or less, have your fun blinding people/selectively breaking the bubble for now, because we're going to fix it.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I think I read a developer's update on the stunbubbles clarifying that they weren't going to "nerf" them, just rework them. Take that however you like, if they just give them the same resolve value as a hard stun, I'll be satisfied, since then teammates will be blaming each other for maxing out the ball carrier's resolve in huttball.

In any case, again, my mentioning of stunbubbles was only to point out that the developers are going to do something so it's not so overpowered, whereas they have not said a word about doing something about smash so that it's not so overpowered. That's the problem, since it implies that they think smash is fine as it is.

Didn't say anything about cartel market additions, but it is pretty stupid that they're adding new gimmicky props to the game instead of balancing pvp. I'm not saying I don't understand it, because I obviously do (they've made a ton of profit from the cartel market and now they can give their shareholders a larger quarterly payout), I'm saying it's a stupid move from a pvper's perspective, which are by and large subscribers. Of course, wouldn't doubt that free to play players are spending more than ~$15 a month now on cartel stuff, so subscribers are probably not particularly important anymore.
Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.18.2013 , 02:39 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I interrupt it all the time... not because it's effective.... but just to be annoying.

*lightning spam... lightning spam.... light... wait... w t f... does it have a cool down?*
You would....

sucha baddie....


(actually as soon as I see something on their cast bar I interrupt. I really don't care what it is, lol...)
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.18.2013 , 02:50 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
That's the problem, since it implies that they think smash is fine as it is.
You ever think it actually is fine? I have said it a lot, I know, but given the time constraints of a WZ, Smash damage is actually about where it needs to be considering that leap/smash has CDs and most people ignore the other CD's where the spec is VERY limited.

On top of that, if you know how to counter the class in general between Smashes, the "strength" of the spec disappears. I am fine when enemies allow me to fly around, and debuff their armor, and hit some sweet Smash numbers, but when they don't?

.........................................

I am headed for the respawn. This is almost a universal fact for almost any class in this game (and directly led to the Sage/Sorc nerf).
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.18.2013 , 02:50 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
Tangent: for each class/roll, how many viable PvP specs are there? I guess you could refine (complicate) the question further by discussing viable specs for each {class, role, warzone} combination.

I know that for healers, a bubblestun hybrid is considered far superior to a 31pt healer. How about DPS?



Why not? the set of viable PvP specs is going to be smaller than the set of possible specs. What is the ideal number of viable specs per class/role?

TANGENT: what sage specs do the top rated WZ teams run?
The point is our 31 point trees are so crap in a rated environment you are pretty much forced into hybrid.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
01.18.2013 , 02:55 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
Let me clarify, I wasn't complaining about the lack of action on fixing stunbubbles, I was contrasting the response to them by developers with the utter lack of a response by developers on lolsmash. The fact that they even mentioned they were going to adjust stunbubbles is good enough for me. Even if it's 3 months from now, I'm fine with that, since it's more or less, have your fun blinding people/selectively breaking the bubble for now, because we're going to fix it.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I think I read a developer's update on the stunbubbles clarifying that they weren't going to "nerf" them, just rework them. Take that however you like, if they just give them the same resolve value as a hard stun, I'll be satisfied, since then teammates will be blaming each other for maxing out the ball carrier's resolve in huttball.

In any case, again, my mentioning of stunbubbles was only to point out that the developers are going to do something so it's not so overpowered, whereas they have not said a word about doing something about smash so that it's not so overpowered. That's the problem, since it implies that they think smash is fine as it is.

Didn't say anything about cartel market additions, but it is pretty stupid that they're adding new gimmicky props to the game instead of balancing pvp. I'm not saying I don't understand it, because I obviously do (they've made a ton of profit from the cartel market and now they can give their shareholders a larger quarterly payout), I'm saying it's a stupid move from a pvper's perspective, which are by and large subscribers. Of course, wouldn't doubt that free to play players are spending more than ~$15 a month now on cartel stuff, so subscribers are probably not particularly important anymore.
I know. I threw in the Cartel Market but most people (including myself) have at one point or another thought... really more crap on the market? How about fixing bugs that are a year old, some obvious balance changes or making it so my double bladed saber stops looking like a single bladed saber....

So I'll go sort of off tangent here. haha. It's Friday and I'm in the office for 2 more hours so why not. Below is why I rightly or wrongly get annoyed by all of the nerf threads (regardless of what the nerf is about).

I've come to the realization that this game will never be what I want it to be, not even close, never ever. I'm one AC away from completely grinding this entire game, he is at lvl 19(mara/sent). I've played all of the end game PvE content, I still do with my guild (because you do the same 2 every time to get better gear). So my hope now is that they make a crazy amount of money from the market and some drastic content changes happen. That or I'll just be too bored with the game to stay.

Part of that realization (that I'll never get close to what I want out of this game) is that I'll adjust to anything that's overpowered/unbalanced/simple/lack of variety (class population imbalance, bad players, skills, WZs, etc). I've learned to adjust to smash and the dirty bubble. I rarely pop a bubble anymore (when I'm in range of the stun), even when I'm on melee, my rotation and ability priority simply changes for the rest of the WZ. I've also never had a problem with smash (probably because I've had one for so long I know how they think/play).

To end my off topic rant. I'm hoping for a ton of new content, much more so than any current balance changes. I can adjust to lack of balance. But without the new glut of content I'll be, like I said, moving on.
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