Summary: PvE stuff inside of PvP areas

world pvp is far more fun than instance pvp as your wanding around the world you see someone flagged around the same lvl as you so you /charge not knowing if they are alone or in a 10 man group questing thats the fun part as it makes your heart race faster not knowing the unknown.

Thats what PvP servers are for Harry Potter

Good lord, it's like trying to explain something to children.

Point A was that putting an objective -- not a reward, mind you, not a mat, armor, blaster, or whatever, but an OBJECTIVE -- for a quest that is otherwise completely PvE in an area that is autoflagged PVP does not

a) encourage PvP : anyone who is just trying to complete the quest and doesn't wish to participate in PvP is punished by gankers

b) encourage PvE players to look kindly on PvP's : it doesn't matter that 99% of you don't gank, what matters is the guy who gets repeatedly ganked trying to buy a stupid HK part

c) achieve ANYTHING towards real open world PvP : you aren't rewarded with anything for said PvP

I'm not talking about having "PvE" only rewards.
I'm not talking about making some things "PvE only" or "PvP only"

I'm saying that in the upcoming update, Bioware should not for any reason put objectives that are designed for PvE quests in autoflagged PvP areas.

The responses I have gotten so far include:

1) "u don't have to du quest is optional" -- do us all a favor and buy a dictionary to spell, first. Second, your 'argument' is completely nonsense. You're suggesting that the HK-51 update , and the questline to reward you with a new companion, should be considered 'optional' and that , as a result, if there are gankers and griefers stopping you from getting to the objective placed in an autoflagged PvP area that's good game design?

Not sure if stupid or missing the point.

2) 'its fun, u should try it lol" -- again, you are failing to see the point. Forcing people who DO NOT WANT to participate in a PvP interaction to do so to complete a quest which is otherwise PvE basically is completely unfair to the PvE folks. It would make about as much as sense a requiring PvP people to beat a HM OP in order to get into Elite War Hero , to 'promote PvE'. It's utterly stupid. If I don't want to PvP , ever, then don't force me to.

Can it be optional? You can go into this Heroic Area OR into an autoflagged PvP area? Sure. Can it be reductional? You can skip this if you're willing to have your HK-51 not start with all his gear? Fine, whatever. What you can't do is set up the next event the way HK-51 was setup then wonder why the majority of the players who don't want to PvE are all pissed off.

3) "Rewards shouldn't be limited to PvE players" -- this is what we call a strawman -- instead of dealing with the argument actually presented, they bring up something else entirely. Allow me to demonstrate.

We have Lord Ownzzj00, a 50 Sith Smashtard in augmented Elite WH , and Jedi TimidGuy, a fresh 50 who has never PvP'd and is in modest mix of greens, blues, and orange gear, not all of it 50, and none of it 51+. Both are trying to do the New Quest, Return of the Wuzzum, which is six stages of PvE questing and one objective located in autoflagged PvP areas.

Lord Ownzzj00 has no problems with the PvE stuff, smashing everything in sight. Two morons try to gank him in the PvP area, but he smashes both with 19k crits and kills them so hard their characters are deleted and the gankers keybaords explode. He collects the objective, finishes the quest, and is happy.

Jedi TimidGuy manages to get to the PvP section, where he is met by two 50's in full PvP gear, who repeatedly gank him as he tries futily to reach the objective. When he asks for help he is dismissed with 'l2p n00b' and gives up in frustration, deciding it's not worth his time and effort.

If you think this is a good thing, then I really don't want to play or group with you.

4) "u don't know the reward'" -- are you MENTAL or just incapable of reading? We are NOT - TALKING - ABOUT - THE - REWARD.

If a quest is designed to reward PvP players and it's all in PvP areas, no one cares.
If a quest is designed to reward PvE players and it's all in PvE areas, no one cares.
If a quest is designed to reward EVERYONE, then putting it in a PvP area only rewards PVP players.

5) "stop complaiing it's pvp event" -- oh, for the love of God. I'm not going to wait for Bioware to make stupid mistakes, they've pulled this stunt several times before.

I am suggesting that in ALL FUTURE CONTENT , not limited to this patch, but IN EVERTHING that no PVE quest objectives should be in a PVP autoflagged Area.

The stuff that is in Outlaws den should be REMOVED for the HK-51 quest.


I'm not sure where all the histrionics about "you don't want to reward pvp" is coming from, lack of reading ability or simple bull headedness, but the whole point is summed up in the thread title

Do not put PVE stuff in PVP areas. Unless you guys think it's cool that we should reward some PvP stuff by being forced to compete in PvE areas that your PvP gear does not prepare you for.

To be honest it depends on what your definition of reward is. For example a PVE'r can get exclusive mounts etc in Ops so if rewards from this were mounts and the like would you consider that a PVE reward or the PvP reward equivalent.

Just because it is a quest does not mean it should be in a PVE environment, even if it is just collect these, click those, etc.. If the quest is in a PvP area and it provides rewards such as tokens or reputation for mounts, pets, PvP gear then they are PvP quests pure and simple and the rewards are meant for PvP players. Having said that I would fully expect the vast majority of PvP players to do what they originally did in Illum and take turns doing the quests, because that is the quick way to do it. If this is what is being delivered it will be the same result as Illum Mk1.

The only way to make it properly PvP is to make it an ownership contest with the winners only getting benefits, not a 'every 2 hours' like wintergrasp/Tol Barad in WoW but an ongoing thing that if the one side lose control their vendors will disappear and the quest can't be handed in. Doing it this way makes it more likely that people will hang around there instead of jumping in every few hours then leaving again.

Oh yes also I haven't done the HK-51 quest because it forces me to group and do a HM flashpoint so no need to speak like forcing someone to go to outlaws den is any different, unless of course you believe it is a purely PVE quest, which of course it isn't.

This is exactly what I'm talking about as well -- requiring people to do a HM flashpoint is also complete BS and is just as unfair as the PvP section. Forcing PvP to complete a HM FP -- which will no doubt have some pithy soul who can't figure out his class but who has managed to be carried by his guild into Rakata to sneer at your EWH gear -- is not making things any better.

If people want to raid they can raid.
If people want to play FP, they can play FP.
If people want to PvP they can PvP.

Trying to force players to do things in game does not lead in 95% of the cases to greater enjoyment, and for the 5% that it does, WHO CARES.

Look, Timmy likes PvP now. Too bad Tom, Dave, Brad, Jim, Carla, Henry, Joe , and Michael quit the game out of frustration and ten more people won't ever want to touch PvP again. That's not a net positive, that's a net stupid.

I need to edit my original points to include that.

I absolutely agree with you!!! Let people do what they want. People can't be forced into liking PvP or raids or anything!!! Offering it all and exposing people to it all is not a bad thing though, nor is offering specific items that can only be acquired by doing certain things (HK or the Hutt hat thing for example).

We all know that lum was originally a PvP centric planet, therefor, I think most of us expect a PvP centric update. IF this update happens to include PvE type quests in a PvP based area, that does NOT make it a PvE update suddenly. It simply offers PvPers an area to do PvE quests in a PvP zone while waiting for people, there's nothing wrong with that. If PvEers want to do the missions, they'll be fully aware of the possibility of PvP and can act accordingly.

The main thing we all need here is dev clarification. It would be nice if they'd jump in and say whether or not they removed the autoflag from the western ice shelf, but until then we are all speculating what is gonna happen. Hopefully in the next week the update will hit pts and we'll have more concrete info to go on.

If this is a pvp content only patch people will just have to accept it and move on. They've said they were going to go back and forth with content patches for pvp and pve. This is seemingly a pvp one with pvp objectives and rewards. Which is good cause the pvp could use a little variety outside of the WZs.

I'm reading up on this thread and I'm still not sure what to think of it all. Obviously it would be helpful if we had more information on the missions themselves like the location of the mission NPC and the objectives because I think that would determine if they are PvE or PvP content.

IF the mission is kill X amount of NPCs in a PvP optional area THEN I'd say they are PvE content on PvE Servers (on a PvP Server it's all just content no matter where it is).

IF the mission is kill X amount of enemy players in the designated PvP area (or anywhere on Ilum if flagged) THEN I'd say it's clearly PvP content.

I think the issue most people have is this they think the missions will be a combination of the two.

Kill X amount of NPCs (or complete other objectives) in the designated PvP area only. And the debate ensues over whether or not that is PvP or PvE content. Part of that is the perception of how that is going to play out. For example;

Player 1 is interested in the PvE gameplay and goes to area to complete mission.
Player 2 is hanging around in mission area waiting for chance to PvP
Their paths cross and Player 1 is prevented from completing their PvE objectives while Player 2 gets their PvP exchange. Essentially it becomes PvE+P.

I think it would be viewed differently if the expectation was that Player 2 from the example was actually there working on their own missions and the encounter was happenstance. However, the dominate belief is that the PvP oriented players are going to ignore the missions for the most part and simply obstruct the PvE oriented players from accomplishing their goals so that they can PvP against easy targets. That's not necessarily what will happen just what people are expecting to happen and so we have a certain level of frustration on the part of the PvE oriented players.

Of course, there are plenty of PvP players commenting that they are going to be doing exactly that which only fuels the debate.

I don't participate in the PvP side of the game. I don't compete in warzones and don't play on a PvP server so I'm about as easy a target as you can get. The way I see it is IF the missions are obtained in a PvP area, and the objectives are in a PvP area, then it's PvP content. So, naturally I won't be doing any of that. I just hope there is something in the update for the PvE oriented players as well so we get something new before the DLC.

This. It's happening on Ilum, which was designed to be a PVP planet. Just because there is a quest involved does not make it PVE. If you anti-PVPers don't want to PVP, then stay away from Ilum and enjoy all the other PVE planets that are in game. Stop being so selfish.