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Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree is coming soon!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree is coming soon!
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LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.24.2013 , 11:43 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by MisterBlackJack View Post
You're right about one thing. There are more pve'ers then pvp'ers. However its because there more pve'ers that you have to bring more pve rewards and objects to owpvp areas otherwise people are just going to do the minimum needed for pvp instead of having a more organic pvp
Organic: a word tossed around today to mean 'natural'. For example, putting a PvP-only reward in a PvP area to reward those who participate , or a PvE reward at the end of a hard PvE quest.

Contrived: trying to make two elements that have nothing contiguous involved to work together. A anti-synthesis of fail and stupid.

What has been repeatedly stated over, and over, and over in this thread is simple: If you want good oPvP you do not derive it from trying to lure in unprepared PvE people. Despite the fact that some people like this pseudo-open PVP that depends on drawing in undergeared and unprepared PvE players to an area where they get autoflagged, many others do not. Despite that some people claim gankers are not a serious issue, they are. And above all else, despite the near constant drone of "PvP needs attention" and "if you don't like it don't participate" , I guarantee you this will be pushed as some kind of PvE thing that can be soloed -- just like HK and Sec X and Rak Plague.

When a dude comes on here , upset because he got ganked eleven times trying to buy a part, people like you will suggest he 'L2P', offer pithy comments on his badness, and belittle him. No one defending this act will help undergeared players in the areas. Not a single one of you is going to bother to waste the time to make sure gankers don't ruin it. Please spare us the wounded tone.

And the response that, if I do not want to engage in this skilless garbage play, I can either be forced not to be able to partcipate in the event at all, or waste time and effort trying to gear up to do so, is a non-response.

But I have a solution: I am FINE with this sort of thing, actually. Do it. However, let's make it like the HK thing, and put the other half of the reward/objective/whatever in HM TFB. Let's see how much the PvP gankers like it when they get kicked from groups and told "if you want the rewards you need to participate". Put the other piece in HM LI, that should be good for a laugh or two as people wipe 30 times in a row.

If it's good for PvE to be forced into PvP, there is no logical reason for the reverse to not be true.
Majynn - 55 Sith Sorcerer - The Society
Garadan- 53 Sith Juggernaught - VTSU
HARBINGER

Mailek's Avatar


Mailek
01.24.2013 , 11:51 PM | #282
I wonder how messed up Ilum is going to be in this patch. I resubbed cause I heard Ilum 2.0 was coming back, this isn't exactly what you guys were leading the PvP on about. Whatever I'll check it out and unsub cause this game sucks.

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
01.24.2013 , 11:55 PM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by LogicalPremise View Post
Organic: a word tossed around today to mean 'natural'. For example, putting a PvP-only reward in a PvP area to reward those who participate , or a PvE reward at the end of a hard PvE quest.

Contrived: trying to make two elements that have nothing contiguous involved to work together. A anti-synthesis of fail and stupid.

What has been repeatedly stated over, and over, and over in this thread is simple: If you want good oPvP you do not derive it from trying to lure in unprepared PvE people. Despite the fact that some people like this pseudo-open PVP that depends on drawing in undergeared and unprepared PvE players to an area where they get autoflagged, many others do not. Despite that some people claim gankers are not a serious issue, they are. And above all else, despite the near constant drone of "PvP needs attention" and "if you don't like it don't participate" , I guarantee you this will be pushed as some kind of PvE thing that can be soloed -- just like HK and Sec X and Rak Plague.

When a dude comes on here , upset because he got ganked eleven times trying to buy a part, people like you will suggest he 'L2P', offer pithy comments on his badness, and belittle him. No one defending this act will help undergeared players in the areas. Not a single one of you is going to bother to waste the time to make sure gankers don't ruin it. Please spare us the wounded tone.

And the response that, if I do not want to engage in this skilless garbage play, I can either be forced not to be able to partcipate in the event at all, or waste time and effort trying to gear up to do so, is a non-response.

But I have a solution: I am FINE with this sort of thing, actually. Do it. However, let's make it like the HK thing, and put the other half of the reward/objective/whatever in HM TFB. Let's see how much the PvP gankers like it when they get kicked from groups and told "if you want the rewards you need to participate". Put the other piece in HM LI, that should be good for a laugh or two as people wipe 30 times in a row.

If it's good for PvE to be forced into PvP, there is no logical reason for the reverse to not be true.
Agreement: Excellently put, for a meatbag. I say we make PvP gankers do PvE as well. I'm tired of people ganking people that are engaged in combat. It just shows their lack of skill. So they get forced to do it this way.
PAX REPUBLICA
SWTOR Thread Guild Website
Casual PVP with Hardcore Determination
Prophecy of the Five | Justicar | International Guild

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
01.24.2013 , 11:57 PM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Mailek View Post
I wonder how messed up Ilum is going to be in this patch. I resubbed cause I heard Ilum 2.0 was coming back, this isn't exactly what you guys were leading the PvP on about. Whatever I'll check it out and unsub cause this game sucks.
Observation: Guess you missed the "no bashing the game or BioWare" post.
PAX REPUBLICA
SWTOR Thread Guild Website
Casual PVP with Hardcore Determination
Prophecy of the Five | Justicar | International Guild

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
01.25.2013 , 12:23 AM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by LogicalPremise View Post
Not a single one of you is going to bother to waste the time to make sure gankers don't ruin it. Please spare us the wounded tone.
Actually during the Tatooine event many of the top guilds and best equipped end game players battled over the hill the npc merchant was on so that lowbies could acquire stuff from their event comms.

This went on for over 3 hours just while I was there on the last night.

In other words, you're full of crap.

aeterno's Avatar


aeterno
01.25.2013 , 12:32 AM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by LogicalPremise View Post

But I have a solution: I am FINE with this sort of thing, actually. Do it. However, let's make it like the HK thing, and put the other half of the reward/objective/whatever in HM TFB. Let's see how much the PvP gankers like it when they get kicked from groups and told "if you want the rewards you need to participate". Put the other piece in HM LI, that should be good for a laugh or two as people wipe 30 times in a row.

If it's good for PvE to be forced into PvP, there is no logical reason for the reverse to not be true.
TFB HM? Fine but then make the other half of the objective only purchasable for 4500 rated WZ comms. Should be good laugh or two as you try to farm that in recruit gear.

Actually, tha IS a great idea. Why not recognize the renaissance men and women of this game in stead of the tunnel visioners? Put a most awesome reward in for it. Oh you only pvp gank? Sry, not leet enough. Oh you only carebear pve? Nah-ah, tis not for you. This is for those that kick npc and player toosh alike, you better recognize.


Don't be such a sour kitten. You won't die if you get exposed to pvp. If theres gankers you and your pve ops group don't want to confront you can always go to a LFG ops till they get tired and leave.

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
01.25.2013 , 01:32 AM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by aeterno View Post
TFB HM? Fine but then make the other half of the objective only purchasable for 4500 rated WZ comms. Should be good laugh or two as you try to farm that in recruit gear.

Really a great point. And I think it kills his analogy. Getting into open world pvp a few times is nothing like what would be needed to accomplish HM TFB. So if that is a wished for requirement to "show the pvp'ers what's up," then the trade off is not allowing a section of the event to be in pvp territory, it would be to force you to actually play warzones as those in fully optimized WH or better easily put in more time than what is required for 63 pve gear. I had my 63's in two weeks and went straight into it from Rakata. I power leveled cybertech and already had artifice to 400, and then with a legacy set got all the mods to the correct crafter from all the easy to acquire Black Hole gear from the RIDICULOUS amount of BH comms that this game gives away. I then had all the mats I needed to trade to a crafter to make my mods and used BH comms for campaign armoring so that I could keep the set bonus. So now aside from 4 61 armoring that were purposefully kept so that I would have the set bonus, I am in a fully min/maxed set of dread guard for my Sentinel.

To get to fully min/maxed War Hero took months. And that's not even the same level of gear. For the ease to which PvE only players can get into BiS gear now, having to put up with a few random pvp encounters during an event should be a trade off they are very willing to deal with.

Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
01.25.2013 , 03:07 AM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by PickledHerrIng View Post
I would get Satele Shan without robe
You realise how old Satele is at the moment right?

... right..?
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.25.2013 , 08:43 AM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawginole View Post
Actually during the Tatooine event many of the top guilds and best equipped end game players battled over the hill the npc merchant was on so that lowbies could acquire stuff from their event comms.

This went on for over 3 hours just while I was there on the last night.

In other words, you're full of crap.
Actually during the HK event on Harbinger WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT there were so many gankers that even pvp geared folks were being burned down.

Lulz, you're talking about what happens now, literally weeks and weeks later? Yeah, real convincing. There's like a few dozen people running it now.

As for the 'make it cost rated wz comms' -- again, the question is simple. Is the event there to provide entertainment for everyone, or to force PVP (and PVE) onto people.

The *smart* thing to do is have multiple methods. Set an objective that can be completed by either oPvP or by top-end PvE. My example was clearly hyperbole; PvP specced people should not be forced to participate in HM's for a companion (especially considering that they don't usually gear theirs to be able to effectively solo the H2's) any more than PvE specced folks should be forced into oPvP.

You cannot force people to engage in content -- if it's not , ah, organically attractive , then shoving rewards in there just makes the entire thing unfun. Arguments from self (i.e., I found it fun so the 4000 people who didn't are just bads) do not an argument make.
Majynn - 55 Sith Sorcerer - The Society
Garadan- 53 Sith Juggernaught - VTSU
HARBINGER

Pytviper's Avatar


Pytviper
01.25.2013 , 09:47 AM | #290
So let me get this straight. You're mad because as a purely PvE player you are forced to go into a purely PvP area to do an events and get HK? Even though a purely PvPer is forced to do multi PvE quest for an event and for HK had to do 2 2m quest, HM Foundry and FE.

Lets compare:
PvEer
-Since you hate PvP your on PvE sever. If you hate PvP and are on a PvP server that is all on you; you choose your server.
-You had to kill 1 WB in PvP area for 1st event.
-Nothing PvP related for 2nd event.
-HK you had to go to a PvP area and buy 1 part.

PvPer
-Had to kill 3 WB and 7 quest for 1st event
-Nothing PvP related. Couldn't even get currency from WZ like the 1st event for 2nd.
-HK had to complete HM and normal FP and do to 2 2m quest easy to solo with geared companion but since companion has no use in WZ companion is ungeared. When asking for help you get trolled.

Who is being forced more to do other type of content ? Who is QQ more?
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Nerf Scissors said Paper.
Nerf Paper said Rock
Listen to the community BW said Scissors, Paper and Rock.