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What if both the Sith and Jedi learnt from each other.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
What if both the Sith and Jedi learnt from each other.

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
01.13.2013 , 01:13 AM | #1
Apologies this is quite lengthily

They followed the way Revan gained power

I have often wondered how the Jedi have such strength and force of will to take on their mighty enemies.
I have read many books of the EU as well as the many wikis and they give me answers yet it still puzzles me.
I know for one thing that Jedi are devoid of emotion and use their alignment to the light side of the force for their power as well as maintaining serenity but at the same token can calmness alone really give you the edge in battle?

I also know that the light side does in fact give Jedi various abilities such as "object movement" or "force push" and even more offensive abilities like "force status". However, again this brings me back to my question, I understand the the force is dark and light as such their are different abilities for both sides but wouldn't a Jedi truly be powerful if their teaching allowed them some Sith influences? I mean if we look at Revan he was both Sith and Jedi but he was not inherently evil and does not kill the innocent yet he had the combined strength of both. Did this not make him the ultimate Jedi? Also on the reverse what if the Sith were to learn from the Jedi like their ability to remain calm and focused. I mean if say a Sith Lord mastered the dark side in such a way that they did not need to revert to base emotions all the time wouldn't this make them the even more powerful?

Tel me what you think.
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
01.13.2013 , 01:34 AM | #2
Revan was just a powerful but arrogant fool who fell to the darkside twice. Also he was evil. Sith teachings are not beneficial to the Jedi. Their two philosophies are essentially antithetical to one another. The Jedi and Sith schools of thought do not complement eachother. You can't be both darkside and lightside at the same time.

Tyree-Solusar's Avatar


Tyree-Solusar
01.13.2013 , 02:12 AM | #3
In this case, you'd have the Je'daii Order.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je'daii_Order

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
01.13.2013 , 05:22 AM | #4
Well, fallen Jedi did become Sith, bringing Jedi teachings with them, quite often according to the various novels.

But a redeamed Sith would have little to contribute to the Jedi, his Lightsaber techniques would be too aggressive, leading to the darkside, and his force powers would be rooted in darkness, and thus corrupting. The jedi would probably study those techniques, but mainly to learn couters for them.

Having said that, the Jedi Sage pelts his enemies with rocks, which is actually very aggressive, especially when you consider he is aiming them, and being hit with rocks is at least as damaging as blaster fire. And aggression is one of the paths into the darkside.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.

Scutum's Avatar


Scutum
01.13.2013 , 10:44 PM | #5
The Jedi aren't necessarily devoid of emotion, but just try to keep them in check so that you don't abuse your power and only serve the force instead of yourself. The Sith teach the complete opposite; to embrace only yourself and put your own goals ahead of everything else. Jedi are preservers of peace that don't seek out battle and the Sith are warmongers that live only to pursue power.

The only time utilizing anything close to the dark side would be, in my opinion, in a case similar to Mace Windu's. He found that he had a strong desire for battle, so he focused his darker emotions into his own unique style to keep those urges at bay.

And while I like Revan as a character, he wasn't the best Jedi. He was more of a "do what has to be done no matter the cost" sort of person, which is not the attitude of a proper Jedi when it comes to other living beings. He was more of an anti-hero who sought to preserve the Jedi and the Republic by any means necessary.

Yes, I think that a Jedi that fell to the dark side would be more powerful at the time, but they would also never reach that point of enlightenment and ability they would have had if they remained Jedi in the long run. And a "serene" Sith usually still utilizes base emotions, but control them instead of the other way around which gives them the appearance of serenity.

The two are simply not interchangeable, and someone who tries to utilize teachings from both are doomed to fall to one side of the fence or the other.
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Genuine's Avatar


Genuine
01.13.2013 , 11:43 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Tyree-Solusar View Post
In this case, you'd have the Je'daii Order.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je'daii_Order
yep the Je'daii Order did use dark side powers and light side this was allowed as long as you came back to balance now there is an augment on what Balance means in this context does it mean Light Side or somewhere in between like Revan tried to explain in the Book Revan.

in the end we just donít know at the moment and it up to you what you believe this is

PS im loving the Dawn of The Jedi Comics
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Ildriel
01.14.2013 , 02:28 AM | #7
Give me my Togruta char !
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.14.2013 , 03:26 AM | #8
Indeed, the whole idea of reven balanceing the light and the dark is a MYTH.

he might have delluded himself, but he was NOT balanceing the force at all.

Spoiler

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
01.14.2013 , 05:43 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Scutum View Post
The Jedi aren't necessarily devoid of emotion, but just try to keep them in check so that you don't abuse your power and only serve the force instead of yourself. The Sith teach the complete opposite; to embrace only yourself and put your own goals ahead of everything else. Jedi are preservers of peace that don't seek out battle and the Sith are warmongers that live only to pursue power.

The only time utilizing anything close to the dark side would be, in my opinion, in a case similar to Mace Windu's. He found that he had a strong desire for battle, so he focused his darker emotions into his own unique style to keep those urges at bay.

And while I like Revan as a character, he wasn't the best Jedi. He was more of a "do what has to be done no matter the cost" sort of person, which is not the attitude of a proper Jedi when it comes to other living beings. He was more of an anti-hero who sought to preserve the Jedi and the Republic by any means necessary.

Yes, I think that a Jedi that fell to the dark side would be more powerful at the time, but they would also never reach that point of enlightenment and ability they would have had if they remained Jedi in the long run. And a "serene" Sith usually still utilizes base emotions, but control them instead of the other way around which gives them the appearance of serenity.

The two are simply not interchangeable, and someone who tries to utilize teachings from both are doomed to fall to one side of the fence or the other.
Very well said. I like your ideas. It would seem that Revan was indeed someone who was willing to do anything to protect the republic. Yet what interests me is his combat effectiveness. I mean for one thing during the Foundry battle he uses a known Jedi Knight ability known as master strike yet he also uses lightening. As such would this not make Revan a true "Grey jedi" yes he seeks the destruction of the empire but at the same time he seeks to shield the republic and defend innocents.

Now perhaps it is true that the philosophies are too entrenched in their beliefs to be used together. But you did state that a "serene" Sith is still very highly plausible because there are examples within the lore of Lords who have achieved this serenity. If this is the case then as you say the Jedi could use the example of Windu which is to teach a very advanced form of combat which is aims to push Jedi to their emotional limits but at the same time teach them the strength to refrain from giving into the urge for battle.

Also another example of how this could potentially work in the battle with Sidious Yoda was able to push back and counter the lightening that was being used against him. That to me indicates that Yoda must have done some learning into the abilities of the Sith to be able to combat them. So if Yoda was able to still maintain control yet have the ability to use Sith powers then i still believe that with enough training a Jedi can safely learn certain Sith arts. If anything it would be strictly controlled and it would only be for martial training.
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Scutum's Avatar


Scutum
01.15.2013 , 05:55 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by theUndead View Post
Very well said. I like your ideas. It would seem that Revan was indeed someone who was willing to do anything to protect the republic. Yet what interests me is his combat effectiveness. I mean for one thing during the Foundry battle he uses a known Jedi Knight ability known as master strike yet he also uses lightening. As such would this not make Revan a true "Grey jedi" yes he seeks the destruction of the empire but at the same time he seeks to shield the republic and defend innocents.

Now perhaps it is true that the philosophies are too entrenched in their beliefs to be used together. But you did state that a "serene" Sith is still very highly plausible because there are examples within the lore of Lords who have achieved this serenity. If this is the case then as you say the Jedi could use the example of Windu which is to teach a very advanced form of combat which is aims to push Jedi to their emotional limits but at the same time teach them the strength to refrain from giving into the urge for battle.

Also another example of how this could potentially work in the battle with Sidious Yoda was able to push back and counter the lightening that was being used against him. That to me indicates that Yoda must have done some learning into the abilities of the Sith to be able to combat them. So if Yoda was able to still maintain control yet have the ability to use Sith powers then i still believe that with enough training a Jedi can safely learn certain Sith arts. If anything it would be strictly controlled and it would only be for martial training.
The only problem with this is that I believe only a certain skilled few could manage to accomplish such a balancing act. Mace Windu did create a way to channel his dark urges, but almost every other Jedi who tried to master his style became corrupted by the dark-side and had to be put down, and Yoda is one of the most powerful Jedi in all history. A small-time Jedi wouldn't be able to handle the constant influences of power and stay vigilant.

Kyle Katarn was a Jedi who tried to use both sides of the force, at first believing that it was only how you used it that made a power good or evil. He later gave that idea up because he found that the more you used a power that relied on a dark emotion the greater that emotion became over time. If you're constantly using your anger to unleash some power then anger becomes something you can't bear to get rid of. You begin to believe that you're only strong when you use those dark emotions, and from there it's a slippery slope to the dark-side.

A Sith could gain some advantages over others by embracing some light-side techniques, but once again it would begin to influence how you thought. Eventually they would lose that drive to gain power and become an easy target for other more ambitious Sith. Malgus knew that no matter how much he loved his wife she would always be a weakness to him, so in order to gain power and lose that weakness he killed her even though it broke his heart to do so.

Once again I believe that a select few individuals could possibly create a code utilizing both orders, but they would have to create their own organization and recruit like-minded people instead of doing it from within the Jedi or Sith.
<--------------------------------------------------->
In my right arm I bear the shield,
With which I shall protect the republic.