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Level 10's PVP with level 21

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Level 10's PVP with level 21

Arumat's Avatar


Arumat
12.21.2011 , 02:57 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by SinRMcSinR View Post
if they can maintain distance, they can literally 1shot someone with no gear.
It appears to me you don't know what the term 1 shot in pvp means.

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
12.21.2011 , 03:00 AM | #32
WHAT?! I'm level 10 and not the best and able to do everything in PvP?!!!?!!??!?!?!??

Indica's Avatar


Indica
12.21.2011 , 03:02 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaarina View Post
Are you serious? Level 10 and 21 (not sure how high it can go but I saw 21 with me in a PVP battle..Seriously?
Pretty cool, isn't it?
I had a lot of fun going after a lvl21 with my lvl 13 yesterday. Sometimes he would win, other times I would.
Yes he had a few more tricks to use but it did not really matter.

Zeelle's Avatar


Zeelle
12.21.2011 , 03:10 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Sentzu View Post
Bioware said a while back that they're trying avoid cross-server PVP to help build community on each server, get people used to seeing familiar names and faces to build friendships and rivalries.

I think it's a good thing personally...

Well, other mmos (WoW and Warhammer for eg) found otherwise. Eventually the population will drop and unless cross-server warzones are already up and running it becomes harder to implement. Subsequently it becomes a vicious cycle as the warzones pop become less and less frequent.

It is easy to organise battlegroups (aas in WoW) so that a warzone 'community' develops. This is much easier to manage than a whole server. Much better to have cross-server warzones and better bracketing with bolstering within each bracket. Bolstering helps a lot but doesn't make up for gap in abilities, especially when pugging imo.

Ramurdyne's Avatar


Ramurdyne
12.21.2011 , 03:29 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxacre View Post
It's just that if you look at these forums, about 1/3 of the posts in the PvP section are talking about how the bolster system doesn't work and PvP is unfair. I'm here to say it's not. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a player skill issue.
its not a player skill issue entirely, higher levels have more abilities to choose from more talent points spent, better gear stacked on top of the bolster, relics, datacron boosts etc etc. How could you so blindly overlook these facts.

Daex's Avatar


Daex
12.21.2011 , 03:30 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaarina View Post
Are you serious? Level 10 and 21 (not sure how high it can go but I saw 21 with me in a PVP battle..Seriously?
This is a non-issue. You can have full black talon set and be much much stronger than lvl 21 in greens.

Krondorf's Avatar


Krondorf
12.21.2011 , 03:32 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Bollah View Post
WoW's bracket system is not even close to balanced. Certain classes will dominate everytime. In fact, some classes are unstoppable and god like pre-max level.

This is after they removed twinks from the regular pool. Not to mention people with legacy gear.

A level 20 vs. a level 45 in a Warzone in SWTOR is more balanced than a level 11 hunter going up against a 19 anything or a level 15 anything in WoW BGs.

They will probably need to add a level 50 bracket eventually.
i totally agree.

thats why you have to twink, otherwise it wont be too nice.

TheNewBlack's Avatar


TheNewBlack
12.21.2011 , 03:35 AM | #38
I don't see why so many people are upset by this. I think it's a great idea so long as 50's have their own bracket. If they didn't do this then pvp would be dead because everyone would be leveling right now.

Also I have an alt I level with only pvp warfronts and story missions. I've gone so far from lvl 10 to 24 this way.

Also please don't ask for cross server warfronts. Right now the Q's are fine and you actually start to know people on your server.

Maxxacre's Avatar


Maxxacre
12.21.2011 , 06:49 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramurdyne View Post
its not a player skill issue entirely, higher levels have more abilities to choose from more talent points spent, better gear stacked on top of the bolster, relics, datacron boosts etc etc. How could you so blindly overlook these facts.
Umm... because I'm consistently dominating people of considerably higher level than me? So are many other people. When you get a level 10 with no gear against a level 50 with a full set of top tier PvP gear, then sure, there's going to be an obvious advantage. Albeit an advantage that can be overcome. But for the most part, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about, in most cases, a difference of less than 20 levels. As I've explained in other posts, level 18s pretty much have everything they need to be able to handle just about anything in PvP. Level 25, if not sooner, is pretty much when you're set and you have the essential skills.

A Sorcerer, for example, has really everything he needs by level 22. The only skills you get between 22 and 50 as a Sorcerer which are relevant to PvP are Extrication, which is just a pull useful for Huttball and has no bearing on combat ability, and Force Storm, which is just a pretty standard channeled AOE. Everything else is for PvE only...

So the issue of skills loses all bearing by level 22 in most cases. I don't know about you guys... but I rolled a Jedi Shadow today and got him from 1-16 in one sitting. He'll easily be 22 within a few hours of starting up tomorrow. So what you're talking about is a matter of those 2 days it takes to level a character to the point where he has everything he needs to dominate PvP. Really? You can't just deal with not having all your important skills for 2 days???

Once you're 22 you should easily be able to take people in their 30s and 40s. There's really no excuse with the bolstering system. You can't use the excuse of abilities because that's just a misconception. As I've explained here, there is no real disparity in the number of useful, if not essential, PvP abilities between a level 22 and a level 50 character. As for gear, it provides far less of an advantage than you think it does, excluding level 50. A full set of the top tier level 50 PvP gear will likely give you a more noticeable advantage, but a full set of level 40 PvP gear? No. Just no.

The bottom line is this: everyone wants to think that the game is broken when they aren't living up to their own expectations. It's a known fact, even to these people, that the majority of the player base in any game is not what anyone would consider "highly skilled." In an MMO, this is amplified by the fact that there are a lot of factors that go into success in PvP. Some of you need to simply come to the realization that you're not particularly skilled at PvP, and that's why you're not doing well. It's not because your opponent has levels on you. It's not because he has gear. Bioware has compensated for that in their very well done bolstering system.

It's counter-productive to sit around and whine about the game being broken because you're not wrecking people in PvP. The productive thing to do would be to work on your skills. The first step is acknowledging that you are lacking in certain areas and admitting to yourself that you need to put a considerable amount of time and effort into improving your skills. If you can't take that first step, you'll never learn, and every game you ever play is just going to be "broken" or "unbalanced."

The reason I'm even here arguing with you about it is because you fools don't realize that you're inadvertently setting it up so that this game gets ruined for those of us who know what the hell we're doing. If Bioware gives in to your incessant whining about level brackets, the only possible outcomes are that A) queues get even longer than they already are, which is a considerable problem considering the heavy faction imbalance seen on nearly every sever; and B) now you're going to potentially face the issue of facing someone 9 levels higher than you (assuming the brackets are every 10 levels) without any actual system to normalize the stats, which is going to make it no fun for the higher levels, and unfair for the lower levels in that circumstance.

You could argue that the game could be separated into brackets of 10 levels for PvP, but bolster only within those 10 levels... but guess what, there's no difference between that and bolstering over all 50 levels in one bracket, except of course for the fact that you're unnecessarily increasing queue times exponentially. As I stated, there is a considerable misconception with regards to the amount of skills in this game. There aren't as many as you think, and the vast majority of them are obtained at low levels. I mean really... the level 50 Sorcerer ability is a PvE oriented combat resurrection with a 5 minute party-wide lockout. How can you possibly argue that an ability like that has absolutely any bearing on instanced PvP? You can't.

So when someone like myself comes around and basically responds to your demands for the removal of bolstering, and the addition of level brackets for Warzones, you chock it up to the fact that I'm a jerk and I don't understand your plight. But maybe you should actually investigate my arguments here. Go look at an ability list for any one of the classes. Put some actual time and effort into your research about the game before you make unfounded claims and arguments for or against something. This is an MMO after all, and although it may be cliche, knowledge is half the battle. Actually, it's more like 90% of the battle in an MMO. You can't argue about some kind of ability advantage past level 22, because the evidence proves your point to be irrelevant.

What it all boils down to, in reality, is that some of you are getting stomped in PvP and you aren't willing to dedicate the time to improve your game play. Instead, you figure you'll hop on the forums and whine about how the game is unfair. With that attitude in life, I guarantee you will not go far. The same applies to an MMO. You will not succeed if your approach is simply whining about how unfair or broken something is, when the evidence suggests otherwise, rather than work to fix yourself.

I have provided you with multiple forms of evidence here to support my claims. You have seen screenshots of my newest level 12 character in my very first warzone matches with him, and I'm topping the damage charts against more than a few mid 30s each time. Does this imbalance that you're talking about somehow not apply to me, but it applies to you when you're fighting higher levels? Of course not. Plain and simple... it's a skill issue.

Stop trying to ruin this game to make yourself feel better about the fact that you're too lazy to work on actually improving your play. Maybe I seem like the dick here... but really it's you who are arguing so fervently for the addition of brackets who are being *****. Bring actual logical arguments other than whining about getting beat; provide evidence and support your claims. Maybe you'll get a little respect that way. If you can't do that, you don't have anything to really argue about, and you don't have a point to make. At that point, all you're doing is crying like a whiney little child.
"Paper is fine, nerf rock!" --Scissors

Kaarina's Avatar


Kaarina
12.21.2011 , 07:25 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by CommandoPower View Post
Good because I ran into my first GOOD 50 tonight. IE geared and good. He was capable of taking 3 players on his own easily simply because he was 3-4 shotting people and taking pitiful amounts of damage. To add insult to injury he was IA so the one time he did get in trouble he just popped vanish.

I've never had a problem feeling like I could at least take someone on and do something significant against them till this guy and his level 50 friends.


If 50's don't get their own bracket soon it will quite literally ruin SWTOR PVP in the warzones.



Bolster seems to work really well. I don't see any problems with that and it lets a level 10-11 significantly contribute to PVP.

They need to refine CC a bit, and certain classes that seem to be able to do everything PVP needs might need a PVP only look at, healing specs might need a slight loss of damage, but otherwise things ain't that bad.

Ok how about this? when you enter PVP, the lowest level player say is 15 so everyone is reduced to level 15 stats and Skills they have learned that are beyond that are dropped (just for pvp) then it is equal and a skill issue

Easy for those who got to level 30-40 to say it is fair if they have more skills way better armor and weapons to easy kill level 10 ...ofc that is fair and equal
Does anyone even read these?