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PvE Guide to the Lethality Sniper by B'oard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
PvE Guide to the Lethality Sniper by B'oard

greg_biochem's Avatar


greg_biochem
03.12.2013 , 07:08 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by blackishaan View Post
Firstly, I'd like to give major thanks for putting this guide out, it really has improved the way I play my sniper not just on the Ops Dummy but in raids itself. I do have a question regarding augment kits. Now, in various forums people implore that it's main stat when it comes to the Sniper augments but I've yet to see them compare it to the crit rating. For instance my crit rating sits at 350 (lethality/engineering hybrid build), so does the extra crit from my main stat really matter after that high of a crit chance? I'm quite sure power would be the way to go after that but I'd like to hear different opinions.
The crit from main stat is on a separate DR curve than crit rating, so crit from main stat will have the same effect on overall crit chance regardless of whether you're at 30% or 40%.

I currently have 305 crit rating on my gear, which puts me at a total of about 39.5% crit chance (with buff, cunning augments, and 3% crit skill). So I would say go with main stat augments (until 2.0 comes out)

That's my opinion on the matter
Server: The Ebon Hawk
Red'october - Gunslinger

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
03.13.2013 , 07:03 AM | #82
I assume you have skilled "Gearhead", which makes cunning augments worth 19,62 Cunning instead of just 18. Power augments don't benefit from that. I say go for cunning augments, regardless of the crit aspect of it :-)
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blackishaan's Avatar


blackishaan
03.13.2013 , 09:55 AM | #83
ty for the feedback guys i shall post a parse with both augment kits kitted out

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
03.19.2013 , 05:18 PM | #84
Excellent guide! I am, however, somewhat unconvinced that the rotation you describe is in fact sustainable. Ignoring Explosive Probe for the moment, the entire rotation has a period of 19.5 seconds (enforced by the CD on Cull and the DoT refresh order). We will see the following energy use profiles:
  • SoS -> LS = 151 energy
  • SoS -> Ambush = 141 energy
  • OS -> RS -> RS = 136 energy

Over the course of 19.5 seconds, we will naturally regenerate 97.5 energy if we remain in the >60 bracket. Obviously, this is significantly energy-negative. Specifically, it is negative by the following energy/sec values:
  • SoS -> LS = 2.743589744/sec
  • SoS -> Ambush = 2.230769231/sec
  • OS -> RS -> RS = 1.974358975/sec

The obvious answer to this is: DoT crits and Cull! Unfortunately, that doesn't help us as much as you would think. We have two poisons, one which ticks 7 times and the other 6 times, for a total of 13 ticks per rotation. Let's assume a base tech crit chance of 37.5% (conveniently, my current crit chance). We have a talented 12% additional crit chance for a total of 49.5%, which gives us a mean regen from crits as 13 * 0.495 * 2 = 12.87 energy. That's just 0.66/sec. Certainly not enough to make up the difference.

Cull is similar. It has a very nice crit chance, and we can assume that it will always double-tick during the channel. With the bonus to Cull's critical chance, we have a crit chance of 0.455 per tick, and thus a mean energy regeneration of 6 * 0.455 * 2 * 2 = 10.92. That's 0.56/sec. Also not enough to make up the difference.

Bringing Explosive Probe into the mix gives us some more to work with, but it's still *very* tight. Explosive Probe costs 16 energy, but also gives us an extra GCD for regeneration. Assuming we use it only at the start of each rotation, we see the following average regeneration: (20 + 1.5 * 5 - 16) / (19.5 * 2) = 0.294871795/sec. If we use Explosive Probe exactly on cooldown, we can improve that to 0.383333333/sec, but that's still not very much.

Altogether, we have an average of 1.514871795/sec energy regeneration from abilities (Cull + DoTs + EP). Basically, we see the following shortfalls accounting for all regeneration sources:
  • SoS -> LS = 1.228717949/sec (24 energy per rotation)
  • SoS -> Ambush = 0.715897436/sec (14 energy per rotation)
  • OS -> RS -> RS = 0.45948718/sec (9 energy per rotation)

And this is all assuming that we *never* dip below 60 energy. If we do, then the shortfalls magnify proportionally.

These are not small shortfalls. Even if we eliminate the SoS -> Ambush and SoS -> LS combinations and replace them with SoS -> RS -> RS, we're still short every time we use Orbital Strike (3 rotations per orbital strike gives us a surplus of 3 energy leading into OS, for a net negative of ~6 energy per minute, though this is almost precisely offset by the set bonus regen attached to Target Acquired). This also doesn't give us enough energy to refresh SS, even on debuff drop (it requires 0.22/sec, or 4.33 energy per rotation).

The only thing I can think of which resolves these issues is to use a lot more RS than has been suggested. This seems to align with the (excellent) videos attached to the guide, where we see Rifle Shots exemplified quite a bit more than the rotation guide would indicate.

Am I missing something? Is my math off anywhere?
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
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paowee's Avatar


paowee
03.19.2013 , 05:36 PM | #85
Very nice to see some math! I agree, and stress the fact that RS should always be squeezed into the "rotation picture guide." As long as you use RS prior to any ability in the rotation (if you see yourself dipping below the high energy bracket), then you can sustain the Hybrid build.

P.S. Would be nice to see your analysis of the Full Engineering spec in 2.0 KBN ^_^, I'm waiting on the reset to do Writhing Horror and another Titan 6 and after that the videos will be finished.
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KeyboardNinja
03.19.2013 , 05:54 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Very nice to see some math! I agree, and stress the fact that RS should always be squeezed into the "rotation picture guide." As long as you use RS prior to any ability in the rotation (if you see yourself dipping below the high energy bracket), then you can sustain the Hybrid build.

P.S. Would be nice to see your analysis of the Full Engineering spec in 2.0 KBN ^_^, I'm waiting on the reset to do Writhing Horror and another Titan 6 and after that the videos will be finished!
I'll put it on my TODO list. :-) I actually haven't tried Engineering at all (live or 2.0), so I'm not yet qualified to speak to it. I'm sure I'll try it in the near future though, being the spec floozie that I am.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

paowee's Avatar


paowee
03.19.2013 , 06:14 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I'll put it on my TODO list. :-) I actually haven't tried Engineering at all (live or 2.0), so I'm not yet qualified to speak to it. I'm sure I'll try it in the near future though, being the spec floozie that I am.
Lookin forward to it! The DPS numbers look good as Full Engi on bosses with huge hit boxes / hit circles. And it works on Terror From Beyond as well! Covered Escape rolls you out of the platform into the next one. Although only 2 bombs will hit the tentacle, the rest will hit TFB itself (but with decreased damage).
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.08.2013 , 09:21 AM | #88
Now that 2.0 is here, I'm curious as to what hybrid spec exactly you found to be ideal. Because of the rearrangement of the skill trees, we have basically been given 5 free talent points to simply add to the existing hybrid spec. That gives us a fair amount of flexibility.

I *suspect* that going up higher in Lethality to pick up the DoT execute talent is probably ideal (Lingering Toxins is unnecessary, and Toxic Regulators is super-nice, but not a DPS boost). This means spending 2 points in anger on a Shield Probe buff. Alternatively, you could pop 3 points into the accuracy talent in Marksman. This is effectively free Surge, which is nice, and may actually be essential in lower tiers of gear (like Arkanian and Underworld). The disadvantage to taking the accuracy talent is you have essentially no place to put the remaining points (maybe Precision Ambush). There is nothing within reach in the Engineering tree which seems worthwhile.

Anyway, thoughts?
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
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bbare's Avatar


bbare
04.08.2013 , 09:32 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Now that 2.0 is here, I'm curious as to what hybrid spec exactly you found to be ideal. Because of the rearrangement of the skill trees, we have basically been given 5 free talent points to simply add to the existing hybrid spec. That gives us a fair amount of flexibility.

I *suspect* that going up higher in Lethality to pick up the DoT execute talent is probably ideal (Lingering Toxins is unnecessary, and Toxic Regulators is super-nice, but not a DPS boost). This means spending 2 points in anger on a Shield Probe buff. Alternatively, you could pop 3 points into the accuracy talent in Marksman. This is effectively free Surge, which is nice, and may actually be essential in lower tiers of gear (like Arkanian and Underworld). The disadvantage to taking the accuracy talent is you have essentially no place to put the remaining points (maybe Precision Ambush). There is nothing within reach in the Engineering tree which seems worthwhile.

Anyway, thoughts?
The hybrid puts 5 in marksman, 18 in engineering, and 23 in lethality. Experimental explosives is better than precision ambush, and going up to take lingering microbes is not worth going further up the engineering tree or taking the accuracy in marksman.
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KeyboardNinja
04.08.2013 , 11:35 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by bbare View Post
The hybrid puts 5 in marksman, 18 in engineering, and 23 in lethality. Experimental explosives is better than precision ambush, and going up to take lingering microbes is not worth going further up the engineering tree or taking the accuracy in marksman.
The accuracy talent in Marksman is really the best argument for *not* going up to Devouring Microbes. Experimental Explosives is indeed better than Precision Ambush, but it really isn't as good as you would think. Only the initial hit of Explosive Probe counts as an AoE effect. Beyond that, nothing else in the hybrid rotation is an AoE (Corrosive Grenade doesn't count).

Devouring Microbes is a really, really good talent. Consider, on an average parse on live, 45% of my damage (in hybrid spec) comes from Poison effects. That means that, when I pick up Devouring Microbes, I increase my DPS by 0.45 * 0.3 * 0.15 = 2%. Compare that to Experimental Explosives, which increases overall DPS by 0.04 * 0.42 * 0.3 = 0.5%. The accuracy talent is a bit harder to calculate due to its effect on energy regeneration, but ignoring that aspect of things for now, 3% accuracy is equivalent to 260 points of Accuracy rating which can be moved into Surge. Assuming a base Surge rating of 100, the 260 more points of Surge grants 11.72% additional surge rating, which gives a DPS increase of 0.1172 * 0.5 = 5.8%. Thus, the accuracy talent comes out ahead of Devouring Microbes at Arkanian gear levels. However, things start to even out a bit more as you get more Surge rating. At a base rating of 400, the accuracy talent gives a DPS increase of 2.5%. At a Surge rating of 500, the accuracy talent becomes worth less than Lingering Microbes.

So I guess that does make sense given current gear levels, but I'll definitely be swapping things into Devouring Microbes once attainable Surge ratings go up a bit more.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)