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Too Much Damage? What?


annie-is-crazy's Avatar


annie-is-crazy
01.07.2013 , 02:14 PM | #21
It happens to us on both HM and NiM EC. Our Maras end up pushing the phases too quick on Toth and Zorn and they jump while the tanks still have 10+ seconds of Fearful.
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SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
01.07.2013 , 02:23 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post
Best example of a boss bugging out due to too much damage is hk-47...
Incorrect.

Pre-fix, the best example was Ortol in Cademimu. If you DPS'd him too fast, he'd fire all four rockets and wipe the party.

That bug existed for six months without a fix, IIRC.

bsbrad's Avatar


bsbrad
01.07.2013 , 04:14 PM | #23
This is actually a common bug on a lot of their bosses, if the DPS hits too hard on HK in the foundry he bugs, Malgus also bugs, the pipe boss in Lost Island (this one is funny if you hit too hard he doesn't do his chest pounding and just jumps straight to the pipes making this boss much easier) to neame but a few.

In the Operations the only main bug I have seen is with Bonecrusher where he can do an insta-enrage and swipe for 20k+ dmg causing an insta-wipe.

For the tank aggro issue, we usually have to get our main dps to give the tank 3 seconds to build up enough aggro (oh what we do for an aggro meter in this game)

NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
01.07.2013 , 06:30 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
This is not an issue of our tanks not being able to keep aggro enough, at least not the way it has been stated. Both tanks are highly geared and hardly ever miss a taunt or mess up their rotation. But with popping inspiration right in the beginning of the fight to coincide with the power use relics and my Flyby, tanks aren't given enough ability to sustain threat through that kinda of dps output, especially with 2 sentinels hitting master strike during that phase. Threat generation simply hasn't been balanced well to keep up with Dread Guard level gear for DPS.

That being said, we had to wait to use Inspiration and wait to use the power use relics until tanks could generate enough threat. There should be absolutely no concept of "too much dps." This should be something that's impossible to do, especially with a boss that has an enrage timer. The Zorn and Toth fight is way worse, I agree, but the Writhing Horror fight is bugged when you do too much damage too quickly and rip aggro off the tank.
If your start off a fight with Inspiration Bloodlust, Adnreal and relic, then your tank should be using DPS relics (2 x power) , Adrenal, and DPS gears. The alternative is DON'T BE STUPID and wait after the first tank swap.

Ripping aggro off the tank is not a bug. It's a feature of the encounter.

GalaxyStrong's Avatar


GalaxyStrong
01.07.2013 , 06:36 PM | #25
Yeah,

This type of thing happens on the Foundry as well. If you beat-the-**** out of HK-47 to quickly he will glitch and not come out of that big metal dome he hides in.

I'm new to MMO's but, punishing some one for doing excellent DPS seems.....well......Just wrong.
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RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
01.07.2013 , 09:48 PM | #26
To me this is a lot of complaining about a non-issue. If you are doing enough damage to Toth and Zorn, then you should be geared and experienced enough to deal with overlapping mechanics.

With Writhing Horror it is even less of an issue and an intended mechanic. With my groups no DPS use adrenals, relics or damage buffs until the first burrow to let the tanks build aggro. We never see an enrage timer and kill the Boss after the second Jealous Male or as the third appears. There is no issue here if you are a competent raid group.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.07.2013 , 09:54 PM | #27
Pushing aggro on HM Writhing Horror really isn't an issue. If the tanks are good (as in know the fight like the back of their hands) then they can go with the flow.

It's HM Kephess where this has made me go "Nooooooooo!"

Ever tried healing when the Walker goes down in 2 tries on HM rather than 3? We did this cause we thought it would save time. Well it didn't cause we died

Why does BW want our dps to sit on their thumbs during the Walker Phases? I don't understand the purpose of having our dps just sit back and pick their noses.
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Creslan's Avatar


Creslan
01.08.2013 , 01:34 AM | #28
Doing TOO much damage should be punishable the same as doing TOO little. You need to find the balance and not blindly hit your rotation while watching your dps meter.

MythicalKnight's Avatar


MythicalKnight
01.08.2013 , 11:56 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
... But with popping inspiration right in the beginning of the fight to coincide with the power use relics and my Flyby, tanks aren't given enough ability to sustain threat through that kinda of dps output, especially with 2 sentinels hitting master strike during that phase.
Well there's your problem right there! If you're doing that much DPS that early in the fight, then you are begging to pull aggro and wipe your raid.

Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
That being said, we had to wait to use Inspiration and wait to use the power use relics until tanks could generate enough threat.
And that is exactly what you should do. You've got to wait until after the first tank swap to start that level of big burst damage. It's almost insanity to make your tanks keep aggro through all that your dps is doing.

Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
There should be absolutely no concept of "too much dps." This should be something that's impossible to do, especially with a boss that has an enrage timer. The Zorn and Toth fight is way worse, I agree, but the Writhing Horror fight is bugged when you do too much damage too quickly and rip aggro off the tank.
First, if you're doing that much dps, you'll never hit the enrage timer to begin with. Second, while "You can never have too much dps" is as true a maxim that can ever be said, having too much dps at the wrong time during a fight can cause more harm than good in a split second. Third, if you're complaining this much about dps problems on the Writhing Horror, then I'm surprised that you're not complaining about dps problems on the tentacles in the first phase of the TFB fight. Oh wait, dps is most likely holding back so tanks don't lose aggro on the tentacles (assuming you've made it that far). Do the same on the WH and you won't have any problems.

Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
And honestly, if you aren't encountering these issues, you might want to make sure your dps are doing the proper rotations. I've had to leave the flyby completely out of my rotation in order to not bug the fight. That is just not acceptable.
Most guilds DON'T encounter these problems because they HOLD BACK their dps until the appropriate moment. Perhaps, your dps might want to re-roll and learn to tank? Or read up on how threat works and how taunts work on threat? That way your dps can have a better understanding of the horrors you are putting your tanks through (and by extension your healers). Just a thought

Edit: Quick question. Is your raid running with 2 Jugg tanks? Cause Jugg tanks are still notorious for losing aggro.
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wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
01.08.2013 , 12:16 PM | #30
Zorn and toth eh can easily be planned around. As for the withering horror, come on now i do fine holding threat with 2 orbitals(one by healer), a mara and a pt in my group. Mara and PT and both over 2k dps and they pop everything to start there is also a sniper and a merc doing 1900. I never have asked them to hold on dps i simply adapted. I'll be honest it does seem like the withering horror's aggro table is lower than other bosses(almost like storm caller). Before they were geared i would wait roughly 6 attacks before my first taunt now i have no choice but to do it after my 2nd or third and as that wears off aoe taunt goes out and again when that wears off single target taunt after that it is smooth riding. It's really just about getting more comfortable with your other raiders.

If you think a mara is tough to hold aggro on get a very good PT and try holding aggro off someone with no threat dump putting up 2k dps.