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The Four Pillars of why you should consider running a DPS assassin/shadow in YOUR rwz

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Four Pillars of why you should consider running a DPS assassin/shadow in YOUR rwz

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
01.06.2013 , 03:53 AM | #11
I've been playing deception on an alt for quite some time and it does retarded well. Much better than most think. Been trying to get my guild to let me play it in rateds lol... had the gleader thinking about it but no dice yet...

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.06.2013 , 04:24 AM | #12
I've tried out the 0/27/14 build. I like it a lot, squishiness issues aside (compared to tank hybrid). Nice thoughts all around.

Quote: Originally Posted by Legskindal View Post
While dps assassins/shadows cant quite compete with the sheer numbers a pyrotech or smasher can put up i think having an offensive stealth class in your composition makes up for the shortcomings damage wise. As OP mentioned, most ranked games in CW and possibly even Novare result in a stalemated middle node. Having a 2nd stealth class to harass the opponents node is highly valuable imo. Being able to pull your defensive assassin and sending a stealth duo to an enemy controlled node can often turn the tide of a match.

Their damage ouptut is even as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The burst potential of full Deception/Wakajinn is excellent. Recklessness and some lucky maul hits can do wonders in assisting the dps train in downing an important target.

It's a shame that dps assassins arent being considered as anything other than node guards.
The burst is good. The question is, is it worth bringing them over one of the more establised "burst" classes? If you're bringing them instead of a defensive shadow I think you're kinda nuts, since no one plays the node guard game better.

You're argument is that the damage is close enough that the extra utility they bring is worth it. Mostly the ability to harass from stealth (since smash juggs and pyro PTs can taunt just as well). For CW or Novarre this might very well be true (though this would actually work better with a stealth two man team, and I don't know if you can spare the space for two of them).

For Voidstar I'm not entirely sure that's true. PTs have more 30m abilities to interrupt caps. The Assassin/Shadow has better respec options though for defense.

For Huttball I KNOW I'd rather have a jugg on my team who can respec into the better carrier, or the Pyro PT who doesn't have to respec to get his pull (probably a wash between the PT and the Assassin here, but then it becomes player dependent).

For Ancient Hypergates I think it depends on your team's strategy. Another smash monkey for the death fest at mid, or another PT for the same thing but all on one target, are most likely the better options. But no one can deny the power of the stealth harasser on this map. Thing is, 23/1/17 is probably better for the last second ninja cap (though really if you think you can get the whirlwind cast off I suppose it doesn't matter, and they don't break the sap it's a moot point). On the other hand, just the threat of a stealth harasser can force them to pull someone else off mid which means you might have the advantage there. Depends on if you wanna go for the smash mouth approach or not in this warzone, and that depends entirely on how your damage stacks against theirs. I'd say a DPS Shadow here gives overall more flexibility in this warzone.

So 3/5 warzones where the utility of a high damage stealth harasser might make up for it, and you have very solid respec options for the other two (though Juggs do as well).

Yeah I can see it.

I need to wean myself off Tank Hybrids for awhile and give 0/27/14 a fairer shake. Always *feels* so much squishier.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Legskindal's Avatar


Legskindal
01.06.2013 , 04:53 AM | #13
I'm definitely not suggesting you bring a dps assassin in place of a tanksin node guarder. Half the value I'm placing on the dps assassin is his ability to pair up with your node guarder and make an attempt on the enemy node in a pinch.

Maybe a comp something like this :

1 op healer
1 sorc healer
1 tank jugg
1 assassin (node guard)
1 dps assassin
1 carnage marauder
1 rage jugg/mara
1 powertech or sniper
Legskindal - Legskolian - Legskillian - Legskindell - Legskindle, and on and on.
Way too many alts

The Bastion

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.06.2013 , 05:00 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Legskindal View Post
I'm definitely not suggesting you bring a dps assassin in place of a tanksin node guarder. Half the value I'm placing on the dps assassin is his ability to pair up with your node guarder and make an attempt on the enemy node in a pinch.

Maybe a comp something like this :

1 op healer
1 sorc healer
1 tank jugg
1 assassin (node guard)
1 dps assassin
1 carnage marauder
1 rage jugg/mara
1 powertech or sniper

Yeah alot of my last post is kinda my thinking as it develops. See the part about Ancient Hypergates. That comp could work out. Certainly it has potential and I wouldn't immediately assume it'd lose to one that drops the DPS assassin in favor of another smasher or PT.

On the other hand Xerain loves to point out how 2 Pyro PTs can just run around melting pretty much anything in their path and that certainly has a lot of merit.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Maxtofunator's Avatar


Maxtofunator
01.06.2013 , 09:19 AM | #15
I would like to say that everything put there also describes scrapper scoundrels and concealment operatives as well, as we have ghost, which may not be as big of a BURST speed, but I have ran after an assassin using their force speed and caught up due to the fact that it lasts longer, so that point is a tied point, as I do not know exactly if an assassin can force speed twice up to the node, though I imagine depending on exactly when they hit it they could.

We can burst someone down between 35-60% hp without having to do much, which causes any non-smash monkey to pretty much just be defensive, or will die.

And to make it just as good, we can also heal the node defender a bit if the fight requires it, even in full dps spec, and have all the cc as well.

So thank you for making an easy argument for concealment operatives =P

cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.06.2013 , 09:28 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
I hope you enjoy your OPest class before it will be nerfed into ground
What classes do you play again?

There is nothing OP at all about any of our dps builds...period.

SOULCASTER's Avatar


SOULCASTER
01.06.2013 , 09:35 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
Hi Party Time Wakalord Flex Guildmaster here from the Bastion server.
Wait....who?
Prophecy of the Five
www.WeaponsOfWarGuild.enjin.com
(5x) Season 1 All-Star Season 2 All-Star Season 3 Furious All-Star

SOULCASTER's Avatar


SOULCASTER
01.06.2013 , 09:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
In the following paragraphs I will make my case for the variety of reasons you should consider running two assassins (one node guarding, one DPSing) in YOUR rated warzone team. This arguement is mainly about Deception-based assassins (mainly those running my 0/27/14 "Wakajinn" spec. As noted in my previously-linked guide I believe madness assassins are usually outclassed by their 30m Sorcerer counterparts).
I also love it when people in desperate need of attention try to make themselves sound important by "trademarking" builds for a class.
Prophecy of the Five
www.WeaponsOfWarGuild.enjin.com
(5x) Season 1 All-Star Season 2 All-Star Season 3 Furious All-Star

Cowflab's Avatar


Cowflab
01.06.2013 , 09:43 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
I've tried out the 0/27/14 build. I like it a lot, squishiness issues aside (compared to tank hybrid). Nice thoughts all around.



The burst is good. The question is, is it worth bringing them over one of the more establised "burst" classes? If you're bringing them instead of a defensive shadow I think you're kinda nuts, since no one plays the node guard game better.

You're argument is that the damage is close enough that the extra utility they bring is worth it. Mostly the ability to harass from stealth (since smash juggs and pyro PTs can taunt just as well). For CW or Novarre this might very well be true (though this would actually work better with a stealth two man team, and I don't know if you can spare the space for two of them).

For Voidstar I'm not entirely sure that's true. PTs have more 30m abilities to interrupt caps. The Assassin/Shadow has better respec options though for defense.

For Huttball I KNOW I'd rather have a jugg on my team who can respec into the better carrier, or the Pyro PT who doesn't have to respec to get his pull (probably a wash between the PT and the Assassin here, but then it becomes player dependent).

For Ancient Hypergates I think it depends on your team's strategy. Another smash monkey for the death fest at mid, or another PT for the same thing but all on one target, are most likely the better options. But no one can deny the power of the stealth harasser on this map. Thing is, 23/1/17 is probably better for the last second ninja cap (though really if you think you can get the whirlwind cast off I suppose it doesn't matter, and they don't break the sap it's a moot point). On the other hand, just the threat of a stealth harasser can force them to pull someone else off mid which means you might have the advantage there. Depends on if you wanna go for the smash mouth approach or not in this warzone, and that depends entirely on how your damage stacks against theirs. I'd say a DPS Shadow here gives overall more flexibility in this warzone.

So 3/5 warzones where the utility of a high damage stealth harasser might make up for it, and you have very solid respec options for the other two (though Juggs do as well).

Yeah I can see it.

I need to wean myself off Tank Hybrids for awhile and give 0/27/14 a fairer shake. Always *feels* so much squishier.
You shouldn't have squishiness problems in a 0/27/14 build. Between Sith Defiance, Darkswell, Entropic Field, Insulation(I usually take this over Static Charges because 4% mitigation through armor seems like better spent points than a buff to discharge which will rarely, if ever get to a 5 stack in PvP), a minute self heal through Death Field, and proper rotation of Force Shroud and Force Cloak(which resets your Blackout timer) you should have survivability on par with Darkness. The reduced cooldown on Force Shroud in Darkness hybrids and full tank builds is definitely a plus, but it doesn't really afford you much more staying power over good use of defensive cooldowns in the Wakajinn spec. The only real loss that I see with 0/27/14 is the absence of Force Pull. But if you rotate your CC's and reduced cooldown Force Speed, you shouldn't have too many problems. I personally prefer Low Slash over Instant Whirlwind, based solely on the cooldown timer of each.

Xertasian's Avatar


Xertasian
01.06.2013 , 11:06 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
What classes do you play again?

There is nothing OP at all about any of our dps builds...period.
i agree with you atm...i have a sin also we are fine balance wise..when that expansion hits we get 5 more skill pts if they do it when we lvl up..well if they leave the trees as is with 5 extra skill pts..us sins can make a few nasty hybrids..we will have the points to go higher up in skill tree..

this is all assumptions until we actually play the expansion..
Back streaming again http://twitch.tv/Xertasian