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What you like to see in the new Ops

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Kitru's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 11:47 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
1) Removal of Enrage Timers / Improved Mechanics
While I support making the mechanics more intense so that they can't just be laughed through (HM/NiM EC, HM TfB do a good job of this, imo), the removal of enrage timers is *really* not something that should happen. Enrage timers exist to require a minimum level of DPS. Without them, you could bring in *any* DPS (or none at all, honestly) and still finish the content.

I have to wonder what tier of ops content you do if you think that the mechanics aren't important and that only DPS/HPS matter. Sure, it's that way on SM because that's entry content where the devs have explicitly stated they want everyone to be able to see (re: it has to be feasibly puggable). On HM/NiM, most of those mechanics that can just be laughed at have to actually be dealt with properly.

At max level, we should have multiple sets of armour, all with different stat distributions and different set bonuses which are useful in different situations to encourage us to collect them all.
Dear. Jeebus. No. One of the *worst* things about classic Vanilla WoW was having to have a different set of gear for *every single raid*. For MC and BWL, you *had* to have fire resist gear. For AQ40 and parts of Naxx, you *had* to have nature resist gear. For the other parts of Naxx, you *had* to have frost resist gear. It was bad for healers and DPS, but it was *especially* bad for tanks, who often had to devote half or more of their bag slots *specifically* to all of the different gear they needed for different fights.

Horizontal gearing should be about multiple optimal methods of stat allocation. It should *not* be about having to carry around 3 full sets of gear because certain fights demand it.

5) Rare Loot Drops
There are already rare loot drops in most of the content that encourages people to keep doing it: pets, mounts, companion skins, and unique shells. I *really* don't want to see all of the screwery that would occur with rare drops that were actually tied to specific pieces of statted equipment: you would see *everything* become master loot to prevent randoms from stealing the potential rare drop from guildies (or the ops leader if the ops leader needs/wants it). There are already sufficient rare loot incentives to run content; such rare drops don't need to be made even more competitive by making them required for optimization.
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MonsterrLuv's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 12:26 PM | #52
1) Base camp to rez at, thats a real good idea :-)

2) Maybe an operation where it's five bosses but the encounters are all puzzles and they're all randomized for the week. Make 26 boss encounters or so (and I realize this would take a lot of time and effort and would never happen but go with me on this), then for each week five are selected at random when the first person walks into the Operation's instance. Each instance is different for each group that walks in, and you would get a title for completing all 26 different puzzles. The lockout would be simple: you can't do the same puzzles twice in one week, and since there would be 26, guilds could go in and do the raid multiple times. The boss rewards could simply be BH comms and daily comms, as well as exotic crafting materials and maybe some special looking armor pieces. No actual raid/high end gear should be available since, well, if you did the operation multiple times in a week you could get geared up in only a few runs (which I dont think is the goal ). It might be fun to play with puzzles every week!

3) A boss encounter similar to the first crescendo/boss event in Kaon or in CWG, where you hold out against waves/phases of adds instead of fighting one big boss (like an arena).

Thats all I can think of now. I dream big
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thasensei's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 01:01 PM | #53
There are some fantastic ideas in this thread. I just wanted to highlight some of my favorites.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gwence View Post
gear drops that are unique and not part of boring sets but are actually more valuable than set gear

for example, they should have wiped DG drops from the NM EC and added in unique class AND spec specific items that had better stats, unique looks (maybe particle effects), AND some focus effect or bonus that would benefit that class spec, like maybe an item that increased force regen on sorc for example or something like that.
I like this idea. Take a page out of games like Borderlands - there isn't necessarily a BiS, there are several combinations that are equally great, but each lends itself to different playstyles.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
However, it *would* be interesting and apt to see a piece of content where you free pairs of bosses, one of which is allied with you (I imagine it being one Jedi and one Sith in each pair, their allegiance swapping based upon which faction you are for the raid but each boss being functionally identical), that are in eternal stalemate and need the help of a specific role in order to win

you're coming to the aid of an amazingly powerful ur-Jedi or ur-Sith and finally ending the eons old battle they've been carrying on. It would be like breaking Captain America and Red Skull out of their imprisonment just to help Cappy beat the crap out of Red Skull in their final dramatic confrontation.
This would be absolutely amazing. ESPECIALLY if you could choose who you were going to help. Maybe I'm a dark-side Smuggler and I want to help the Sith for selfish reasons.

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
We don't spend all our time raiding with an ops group. More 4 man content of this caliber would be *very much* appreciated.
I agree with this. Sometimes I'm in the mood to run something interesting and productive, but I don't want to sit on Fleet for two hours trying to put a group together.

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I want to walk into the next operation and be fighting a pitched battle against the Empire. When I walk into the same op on my Imp alts, I want to be fighting the Republic.
This sort of ties into Kitru's suggestion above in the sense that it really brings in that Star Wars feeling. I'd live to see something like this. Seriously, who is Kephess and why is he suddenly more ****** than the most dangerous Sith?

Quote: Originally Posted by Arlon_Nabarlly View Post
Give some incentive or ability to win this among your raid group. Whoever is the first to achieve their goal gets a piece of loot automatically, no roll on it. This should probably be a title, pet, or mount and not a piece of gear. That way displaying the title/mount/pet would mean something rather than you bought it or won a random roll.
I really like this idea. Give me something to show off my accomplishments, even if I didn't win the roll for that super rare tank mount.

Quote: Originally Posted by bsbrad View Post
How about making it so the mechanics of the boss change thereby it isn't just a memory check of click this, dodge this AOE, tank swap etc...
This is an awesome idea. I don't really know how it could be implemented, but if it's done right it would be amazing. Every fight would be a different and unique experience, and it'd keep my interest a lot longer.

Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
Removal of Enrage Timers...Whilst I appreciate the desire for people to be able to play their class well, once you have achieved this ability it basically trivialises the entire game.
I don't think enrage timers should be removed across the board, but it would be neat to see SOME fights which don't have enrage timers. If a group is good enough to survive for 20 minutes, why not let them? What's the harm in allowing different methods to achieve victory? Heck, you could even grant titles for speed and/or endurance.

Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
Also, where are my epic battles?!?! The films and books are full of epic, large scale battles where everyine contributes and sacrifices but heroes rise up to help win the day. That doesn't happen in game, anywhere, and it's a real shame.
I think you'd have to fix the latency issues that tend to crop up when there's too much movement; but if you can take care of that, this would be awesome.

Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
Horizontal Gear Progression with a Purpose...Tiered progression invalidates old content and thus should *never* be done again.
I know this idea has been around a while, and it's implemented successfully in other games. Lets put it to use for us, since we have the opportunity to redesign how end-game works. As of right now, I don't run anything that doesn't grant me Black Hole comms...and that sucks, because that means I'm running the same 5 pieces of content over and over and over and over and over and...

thasensei's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 01:58 PM | #54
Some ideas that I think would make things a lot more fun and help keep the content interesting through several runs:

What? We have to hop on podracers to beat the bad guy to the fortified position? Wait, you mean we can steal/repair those abandoned/disabled Walkers and wreak havoc?

This has been mentioned already, but I just wanted to emphasize how awesome this would be. The war is still raging, I'm one of the most powerful Jedi in generations...why aren't I helping? Give us a scenario where we are helping our side win this epic war of the ages.

Knock-down drag-out brawl:
I'm not saying every fight should be like this, but it would be cool to have a "boss" battle that's less about mechanics and more about just letting loose and surviving the chaos.

Rare drops:
Yes, there are some rare drops already...but keep them coming. When's the last time we got a cool new color crystal? How about something for the non-saber wielders? What about schematics? Hey, how about end-game vanity schematics? Biochem can make some new pet, Cybertech can make a new mount, Artifice get a new color crystal, Synth/Armor/Weapon get some adaptive armor schematics.

Easter Eggs:
I'm not talking just a slightly hidden chest, but something that gives some reward for exploring or figuring out some non-boss puzzle. Maybe if you do a full clear and explore the entire map, it gives your party some unique buff.

Random trash mobs:
I definitely wouldn't want this everywhere, but it might be cool if some of the trash spawns were more random and thus less predictable. It would add a slight element of surprise to the otherwise tedious grind of dealing with trash mobs.

Server-wide LFG chat channel:
I've got better things to do than sit on fleet repeating "LFG for any HM op" for hours. Let me go out and have some fun while at the same time waiting to put a group together.

Achievement buffs:
How about some special buff as an achievement award? I can't think of any specific examples other than Nightmare Pilgrim, but I think it'd be a neat idea. It could be an buff for an achievement within a single run, or an achievement of clearing 10 times, for example.

Large scale warfare:
You'd have to address the latency problems, but how awesome would it be to wade into some epic scale battle, single out the champion that's wrecking your forces and take him down? All while dealing with the various baddies around you.

Different ways to obtain the same gear:
Why not have two ops, each with a chance to drop the same gear? If these two new ops are designed to be the same difficulty, it allows for multiple paths to the same gear objectives.

Speeders and Medic Stations:
Just adding my voice to the mob that says we need better speeder dropoffs and respawn points inside the instance.

AVOID mechanics that are annoying b/c of non-gameplay reasons, ie:
1) SOA - the pylons need a shadow or something. It's just annoying to not be able to tell when I'm under the stupid thing. And if I don't zoom my camera out completely, there's no way for me to even see the pylon.
2) TFB Kephess - in the first phase where he's connected to a specific pillar, you'll never see that lightning stream if you don't have your camera zoomed out. Why should camera preference affect gameplay?

Kitru's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 02:48 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by thasensei View Post
1) SOA - the pylons need a shadow or something. It's just annoying to not be able to tell when I'm under the stupid thing. And if I don't zoom my camera out completely, there's no way for me to even see the pylon.
Pylons don't explicitly need a Shadow. If you've learned how to place yourself, you can do it without every getting touched by the pylon. Of course, I agree that it's friggin' *annoying* finding the right spot to pull Soa so that he gets hit while you don't, especially when you're just learning, but I see that as less of a problem with the camera zooming and more of a problem with there not being a useful ground effect: I would have no problem with the pylons if they fired a beam downwards when the spin is speeding up and it's preparing to drop with a visible ground effect to show the area where it's gonna slam into the ground (I imagine something like the T&Z Baradium Hurl meets the Twin Tanks skybeam visual effect).

Of course, it's old content now, so it's not really a big deal.

2) TFB Kephess - in the first phase where he's connected to a specific pillar, you'll never see that lightning stream if you don't have your camera zoomed out. Why should camera preference affect gameplay?
This is only a real consideration if you're in melee. A ranged DPS or a healer can easily call out the proper pylon. Of course, it would be nice if the effect was closer to ground level, but it's not exactly *required*.
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RLWalker's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 03:04 PM | #56
There was a thread many months ago very similar to this one - it has a lot of good discussion, although some of it is out of date:

Kitru's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 03:14 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
There was a thread many months ago very similar to this one - it has a lot of good discussion, although some of it is out of date.
Most of the stuff discussed there references things that aren't explicitly tied to Operations design: improving the UI, removing CDs on cleanses, etc. The only real thing mentioned explicitly concerning Operations design is the health based phase transition comment, which BW seems to have taken to heart looking at TfB.
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POPsi's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 03:41 PM | #58
a dynamic operation where your raid would be sitting on a walker of some sort and would have to go through a battlefield where friendly and enemy npcs would ensure that there is a war ongoing, get to some boss encounters on which I still don't have a clear view how that would work. Or an operation in space, with a spaceship, where you would actually had to navigate to objectives, raid members would have to operate ship weapons, fight off boarding parties, repair shields and stuff like that. I'd pretty much sht my pantalloons if they did something like this. Sadly, never going to happen.

IAmViiOLENT's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 04:07 PM | #59
Bear with me on this one guys, it's a bit different. A live content raid, similar to how bioware has had it's live content events.
Here's an excellent scenario, (as Imperial side faction) The Imperial Fleet has been seized by the dread guards, and in emergency protocol the empire has relocated everything to a nearby much less elegant space station. The fleet will literally be unaccessible, UNTIL a raid group has downed a series of boss encounters to regain control of fleet. The guild that accomplishes this is announced server wide with all toon names currently in raid and fleet is able to be used again. They all receive a unique title and mount, that no one can then ever get again. At that point, the entire server will have access to fleet again and the operation is then accessible as a "legacy" raid in a holosimulator for everyone that drops loot rewards just like the original raid. Honestly, this would breed some SERIOUS server competition and be honestly the funnest thing I could imagine for a raid. Trust me, I would want my factions fleet back!

RLWalker's Avatar

01.09.2013 , 04:21 PM | #60
Personally I would love an operation where storytelling is the focus. Outside the operation there is a questing zone introducing the major players, the conflicts and themes, while leaving some mysteries. Maybe even a couple flashpoints that continue the story. Inside the operation the encounters are all tied to the story and a quest line guides you through. The quests doesn't simply have to be "kill X boss" but maybe collecting intelligence from a computer and using it to defeat a future encounter or even modify the encounter based on how successful you were at slicing the computer. E.g. There is a tech deleting/scuttling the computer during the encounter. If you are very successful you learn how to disable an impenetrable security system that leads to an extra boss (or gives you extra loot on the next boss) (or you learn some neat lore). Or something - I'm not really an expert on these things. I like the ideas in this thread like "assaulting a space station/military base".

This would be sort of like having Taris, Kaon, Lost Island, and a rak ghoul operation released at the same time - only with a bit more cohesive structure between them.