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Hardmode "manners"


Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.30.2013 , 05:50 AM | #261
people these days... last one to say 'sorry for pull' and 'i'm new here, help me', first to post whiny threads...
I usualy type few times things about kill order and such, when I'm on my tank I just deal with it and focus on helping the healer, when I heal, I just let that trigger happy dps die if he starts pulling random things or breaking mezzes...

every one makes mistakes, every one was new at some point, but atleast say 'sorry', I always apologise if some one dies at my fault. Always apologise if I broke cc or pulled trash from other group causing havoc or wipe. Never got raged at. why?
Cause I said 'I'm sorry'. It looses tension.
When someone did something stupid and made small pull into hell, and I want to say something rude, he says 'sorry guys', I know he made mistake and he knows it. If same happens but dps pretends like nothing happens and continues on doing that? I wait for them to die few times

Never done story mode of L 55 hm, low level flash points during leveling is not my thing. I asked as tank 'what should I whatch out, first time here, bear with me'. got polite answear from random pugs. (actualy got raged at once by a healer who complained he had to heal me as he used to heal everything with just one heal button, he quitted, and we cleared that HM with his undergeared replacment-but that doesn't count, as it wasnt my fault, just healers weird imagination I was supposed to be immortal)
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

MorgothPl's Avatar


MorgothPl
04.30.2013 , 09:19 AM | #262
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Never done story mode of L 55 hm, low level flash points during leveling is not my thing. I asked as tank 'what should I whatch out, first time here, bear with me'. got polite answear from random pugs. (actualy got raged at once by a healer who complained he had to heal me as he used to heal everything with just one heal button, he quitted, and we cleared that HM with his undergeared replacment-but that doesn't count, as it wasnt my fault, just healers weird imagination I was supposed to be immortal)
Exactly that... I started the 55s bit alter than others, as I wanted first to craft new gear and experience Makeb with all the chars But, once I started doing them, I always told people that I'm new in this. Never got kicked out or yelled, even if some pulls went wrong (Cademinu police blockade or the droids in Athiss) and ended in wipe. People did help with explaining tactics and slowed down a bit, so I could learn the pulls and the FPs - and those were PUG groups. I believe, that if I'd pretend that I'm veteran and cause wipe after wipe, I'd hit the door quite fast.

Elizar_Naki's Avatar


Elizar_Naki
04.30.2013 , 10:19 AM | #263
While I'll admit that the OP likely made mistakes, both in-game and here, a lot of what I've read in this thread is entitlement at its best (worst?): people think that just because they've done content to death and can speedrun through things, everyone else should be able/willing to as well, and that they're "terrible" or "noobish" for not. I'll admit to being far from "pro" in most of the game's content--I have yet to do the new 55 op or the 55 upgrade to TfB, never had time to do the HMs of EC or TfB or any of the NiMs in 1.x, and I've never really put much time into HM FPs simply because I never really cared enough--but on the rare bits of content that I DO know completely what I'm doing, I'm more than willing to help other people in my group whether they voice the fact that they need it from the get-go or not. That's what being part of a team is all about, when it comes down to it.

Partly, this comes from the fact that I'm a weirdo when it comes to internet anonymity. Most people use it to be total jerks with no repercussions, I try to be better than I am IRL because I can take time to formulate my reactions. C'est la vie, and all that.

But anyway, I've had similar experiences to the OP, and while some of them were at least partially my fault, not all of it has been. Preface to all this: my wife and I usually run through the game together just to have SOME guaranteed help that'll be understanding when we eff up. Our schedules are limited, so we don't have time (or even the desire) to run everything and get pro at it; we run stuff based on the end rewards and how any bit of content will help us get what we want without driving us crazy or boring us to tears along the way. Anyway, a few examples of things I've experienced similar to the OP include:

1. the first time we ever managed to get all the way to Kephess on an EC run, I had no real idea what the mechanics were and, to some degree or other, caused the group to wipe. I'll admit that, it's not a big deal to me to do so anymore. What WAS a big deal was that the group, despite knowing that my wife and I had never fought Kephess before, only gave moderate explanations of the mechanics to us before strategizing amongst themselves--and when we wiped, I was made to feel about two inches tall for my part in it. Personally, I'm with the OP here: this is a game, and people shouldn't get so worked up over it even when things go bad. My best experiences in raids and such have been groups that just laugh off their/our failures and figure out how to improve on the next attempt.
2. eventually, we decided to start doing HM FPs pretty much just long enough to get the Aratech Ice achievement done. We did LI and MP HM with a couple friends, and even though LI went terribly (my wife and I had literally just finished the SM version hours before and were still fairly green on the FP), we laughed it off and moved on. A day or two later, though, we started pugging groups for the other ops. We literally had someone in an Esseles group AND an FE group order us to spacebar things at one point; I'll admit, I wasn't used to doing that yet since I'm in this game for the story and don't generally skip things, and I'll also admit that Esseles would take a long time without it, but copping an attitude right from the start just because someone's force-of-habit takes over isn't a good way to build camaraderie (if anyone really cares about such things anymore). By contrast, another FE group we did was made up of relative noobs (knew what they were doing but didn't have the best gear in the world) who were some of the friendliest people we've met, and I'd much rather run a group with that variety of player than the most uber-leet players on my server if the uber-leets are gonna be jerks about everything.
3. later had a group that we ran D7 with that, while not a terrible run, was just tense. We introduced ourselves right off the bat and made it clear that we hadn't run D7 in a while, and never on HM...and the other two players just ignored us. They never said a word, they never waited for us, they just plowed ahead through all the shortcuts they already knew, forcing my wife and me to struggle just to keep up with them. We never wiped, never pulled any trash we didn't need to, and ultimately made good time through the FP...but it wasn't even remotely fun because the other two players made things so tense.
4. I ultimately did the last 3 FPs for the speeder on my own since my wife had other things to do at the time. Did T5 and Kaon back-to-back (I'd stopped caring about Group Finder rewards by then and just wanted to get done) and had an absolute blast even though Kaon was one of my least favorite FPs--because the groups I got were both talkative between fights and forgiving when mistakes were made.
5. later, however, I finished the achievement with a return to Battle of Ilum. This group was jerkish beyond anything I'd seen yet. I once again saw a repeat of people taking shortcuts without waiting up; I ended up dying twice--once to the exhaustion zone (one person of the three came back to res me, everyone else just powered through) and once to trash that I pulled while trying to keep up. I might've been able to take them at full HP, but I was far from full since I couldn't take time to heal without risking the rest of the group leaving me behind; the others didn't come back to help until I was dead, and the only thing I got was a "stop dying lol" while I was being ressed again.

Mostly, though, my problems with the group's attitude revolved around their interactions with each other. One of them literally called for a "f---ing Guard" from the tank at one point, while the healer kept throwing around ****s and swears any time anyone made any little mistake on the shortcuts in the second half. Worst part, though? After killing the first boss we couldn't skip (the next-to-last one, I think), a Jedi Battlelord piece dropped. Everyone else hit Greed but the tank, who hit Need. The healer Sage went nuts at this point and initiated a vote to kick; I abstained since I just wanted to get done, but the tank left anyway (either by vote or by choice, not sure which), and we ended up making an unsuccessful run on the last boss (again, I won't sugarcoat that it was my fault on that wipe because I forgot the boss's mechanics without realizing it) before another tank joined up from the queue.

Let me clarify for a moment that our group's initial composition was me (a Sentinel), a healer Sage, another Jedi dps that I can't recall (pretty sure it was another Sage), and a Guardian tank. I didn't want the Battlelord look for my Scourge and din't care enough about any of my alst to hit Need to get the piece for any of them (I don't play that way, anyway), and nobody else on the team had reason to hit Need for either themselves or a companion--but the Guardian could actually USE the Battlelord piece that dropped. So for all intents and purposes, the tank was griped at and eventually forced out because he hit Need on something he actually NEEDED.

So yes, I DO believe that a decent chunk of y'all need an attitude adjustment when it comes to this kind of thing. Sure, people like me and the OP make mistakes, and I'll fully admit fault when I do...but so what? It's no reason to go thermonuclear on us; this, first and foremost, is still a GAME, and it's supposed to be fun for EVERYONE playing it, not just you. Any of you that honestly think otherwise probably need to re-evaluate your priorities.

TL;DR version: Op goofed a couple times, get over it and learn to roll with it when things go wrong instead of throwing a gripe-storm.
"The Force isn't supposed to be a quick solution to every problem...although it does help."

"Peace through fear and suppression of freedom isn't peace worth having."

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.30.2013 , 12:01 PM | #264
The only time I advocated skipping mob was yesterday on Mandolorian Raiders with undergeared tank and healer and I know we're going to wipe once on each set of turrets of doom so we skipped every set that can be skipped (and wiped once on every set that cannot be skipped).

I think it's an oxymoron people claim to be awesome and skip stuff, because doing great DPS is supposed to be a requisite for awesomeness, and when you do enough DPS, sometimes it's quicker to clear the stuff than skipping it because charge is the fastest way to travel forward. In a great DPS group we usually can start clearing the next pack just as the scavenger/bioanalysis finishes the last pack, and since we got to wait for that guy (there's almost always one of those guys), why not clear the stuff?

Askesis's Avatar


Askesis
04.30.2013 , 10:35 PM | #265
Well, I finally got kicked from my first group. It's not a particularly interesting story, but decided to share it.

Group pops (I'm heals), and I port in, along with two other members, who are in the same guild. The final group member, however, takes about 10 minutes to get inside. Since the other members don't seem upset, I deduce there's a good chance the last guy is their guildmate (he was), so I just sit there patiently.

We run through the first boss, kill him with no problem, when the same person that took 10 minutes to enter the FP now goes afk without a word. After a few minutes I ask "What are we waiting on?" and get the response of "he'll be back". Couple minutes later he gets back and we continue on. Not much had been said in party chat, and I guess they are on VOIP, but we have no problems the entire time, and not a single person has died at all.

About halfway though the FP, one of them (i believe the guy that went AFK two different times, but I'm not sure) initiates a vote kick on me with the very descriptive reason of "gay" (drats, I should have reported him for descriminating comments). Hoping the guy was just messing around, or at least hoping he was the only idiot in their guild, I waited, but I knew what was coming. It turns out, being a tool is contagious, and he had spread his disease to his guildmates (or, to be fair, perhaps he is the one who contracted the disease from them).

Nevertheless, they have cost me the ability to accurately claim that I've never been kicked from a group. They've taken something from me that I can never get back. I'm not sure what to do with my life now, but I'll try to pick up the pieces and move on.

I guess Illuminati on Prophecy of the Five really are Illuminati!

DonkeyGobbler's Avatar


DonkeyGobbler
05.01.2013 , 02:22 AM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Askesis View Post
Group pops (I'm heals).... It turns out, being a tool is contagious, and he had spread his disease to his guildmates (or, to be fair, perhaps he is the one who contracted the disease from them).
Put them on ignore and console yourself with the fact that the DPS HM queue times just got longer

I tanked Hammer Station last night with a very well geared Sentinel who pulled every trash group and barked orders in chat every two minutes (accompanied by a million exclamation marks each time). I let it go because I couldn't be bothered with the drama but the first thing I did at completion was add the idiot to ignore. I'm a tank, my groups pop instantly every time. When I play DPS I often have to wait for anything up to an hour. His loss.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.01.2013 , 03:20 AM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyGobbler View Post
Put them on ignore and console yourself with the fact that the DPS HM queue times just got longer

I tanked Hammer Station last night with a very well geared Sentinel who pulled every trash group and barked orders in chat every two minutes (accompanied by a million exclamation marks each time). I let it go because I couldn't be bothered with the drama but the first thing I did at completion was add the idiot to ignore. I'm a tank, my groups pop instantly every time. When I play DPS I often have to wait for anything up to an hour. His loss.
Today I got two well geared DPS for my group and I died way more often than I ever did because being geared DPS apparently means the first target you attack is whatever I just mind trapped, and since I'm still more than capable of holding aggro from these DPS, I ended up taking way more damage than I normally do.

Honestly I think sometimes it'd be a good lesson to let any DPS pull all the trash and see how fast 5 droids in Athiss or 5 dogs in Cademimu chews you up. Maybe they'll at least learn not to attack the mind trapped target first.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
05.01.2013 , 03:30 AM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Today I got two well geared DPS for my group and I died way more often than I ever did because being geared DPS apparently means the first target you attack is whatever I just mind trapped, and since I'm still more than capable of holding aggro from these DPS, I ended up taking way more damage than I normally do.

Honestly I think sometimes it'd be a good lesson to let any DPS pull all the trash and see how fast 5 droids in Athiss or 5 dogs in Cademimu chews you up. Maybe they'll at least learn not to attack the mind trapped target first.
when I tank, and have happy jumpers, usualy talk on /p something like 'damn, you are like super computer dps' to get their attention, and when they thank me for complement, I add 'shame there was no room for kill order priority, it would be perfect (weak->strong->elite->champion)' (I should macro that)

on healer letting one dps die from time to time is good way to train them. Like a puppy. Can't beat them, but punishment from time to time is a good thing.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
05.01.2013 , 05:07 AM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
when I tank, and have happy jumpers, usualy talk on /p something like 'damn, you are like super computer dps' to get their attention, and when they thank me for complement, I add 'shame there was no room for kill order priority, it would be perfect (weak->strong->elite->champion)' (I should macro that)

on healer letting one dps die from time to time is good way to train them. Like a puppy. Can't beat them, but punishment from time to time is a good thing.
Yea you got a good system there. I kind of take it a step further though.

As a healer, I do the same thing you do. I let the DPS die if they think they are the tank.

As a tank, if the DPS pulls before me, I let them tank it and resume going at a fast pace. Basically I force the healer to spend their resources on me or the pulling DPS. If I die, I just leave and make them wait 2 hours for a new tank.

Honestly the true source of most group problem stems from DPS. I got 5 level 50's and 8 55's. In all my time doing FP's, I met maybe 8 DPS that actually used their interrupt skill.

sumuji's Avatar


sumuji
05.01.2013 , 05:10 AM | #270
I think it's just the element that are running HM's right now. They're the progressionist elitiest types for the most part. The kind that think they're the shizzle cause they run ops and had the resources to gear up fast. I don't think you're average player type are queing up that much yet. Probably still leveling or trying to gear up enough.