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Hardmode "manners"


ladwar's Avatar


ladwar
01.10.2013 , 06:14 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by justsillyotp View Post
it's like you don't even remember launch when we were doing HM ev with partial correlia gear.
i actually don't remember that becuase i never did that oh and btw i didnt come at launch but 2 months later.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.10.2013 , 08:33 AM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by ladwar View Post
i actually don't remember that becuase i never did that oh and btw i didnt come at launch but 2 months later.
If you've been around since v1.1, then you know what it used to be like to gear up.

There was no group finder, there was no Campaign / Black Hole gear. The only way to get Columi or better was to do HM FPs and Ops. Didn't you do HM FPs in Tionese (or even worse)?

AMulls's Avatar


AMulls
01.10.2013 , 09:49 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
Keeping on topic here...

There are comments going around about the quality of gear doesn't matter.

I have to strongly agree here because people get used to having more than they need.. So of course they have room to work with. It's their fault if its a big deal to repair it because they buy expensive gear, and lose money from having to repair said expensive gear.

If you have equips that give you more health and stats you need, there is no challenge.
So of course flashpoints are easy for you. But it's more fun with a challenge, and that rush you get when you realize someone is almost dead fighting a boss and you need to spam heal them. I like getting close calls like that.

So when these people aquire stronger mods, of course that becomes their definition of decent or normal. So when a person shows up with tionese mods, of course they will get ripped for what they have.

It's a type of bragging the player does to say they have more money and can get better things... That's not what the game is about.
You are absolutely right on some of this. There is no challenge in the HM FPs for people who are very well geared. Which is exactly why they want to run through them quickly. They aren't doing it for the challenge anymore. They are doing it for the 5 BH comms. Their challenge comes from doing the HM and NiM Ops like EC and TFB. Where, even in the gear they have, there is still quite a bit of challenge.

And you're right, it is their choice to buy that gear. But make no mistake, they have likely put in time to earn that gear, so that they can take on the greater challenges. So, it is quite frustrating to have to pay for repairs on that gear because someone caused a wipe on an easy, mindless HM FP. If an undergeared and inexperienced person does not ask for help and causes a wipe, then it is NOT the fault of the overgeared person, simply because they "chose" to be overgeared and should expect the costs associated with that. Especially when nothing was said and the expectation was that the person knew the FP and how to handle it.

And before I am accused of being elitist, please note that I've yet to set foot in TFB, and have done no HM Ops outside of KP and EV. I am in a very social guild and we have a ton of fun. But I do have several 50s. I enjoy playing my alts, as well. So, once I reach 50, I want to gradually gear up those 50s so as not to neglect them, but I want to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

So, yes, I like to go through the HM FPs as quickly as possible. The only gear I would possibly need (even on a fresh 50) would be the Columi piece dropped from the end boss and the BH comms from the daily quest. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game. It means that I'm trying to get through the HM FP grind quickly so that I can go back to doing other things on my other toons that I do enjoy.

Generally, I try to be as friendly and upfront with my groups as possible. And I agree, there is no reason for anyone to be rude. But just because someone in the group is being rude, doesn't mean you should hold up everything, thereby annoying and punishing the other two people in the group, just to prove a point or to troll the rude person.

As for the person who mentioned wanting to watch movies over and over, I get it. I do the same thing. But you know what I don't do? Watch the same move over and over when I have other people waiting on me to go do something. I watch the movie on my own time. Or I ask the people if they'd like to watch it again with me. If they do, cool, we watch the movie. If not, also cool, I've seen it before and I can easily go back and see it again at my leisure.

This is a social game. That's the whole point of it. As such, we should all be mindful of that and be considerate players. If you're holding up a group, pick up the pace or drop from the group. If you're running way ahead of everyone else and keep having to wait for everyone else to catch up, maybe take a second and realize they are slower and trying to enjoy the FP. It works both ways. But neither rudeness, nor retaliation for that rudeness (no matter how good it might feel) should be tolerated in any form.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.10.2013 , 11:10 AM | #204
I find it odd that the OP included the term Manners in the title, but yet demonstrates anything but. Yes, there are some over geared elitist that care nothing about the game expect what it is in it for them. However, from what I have seen there are even more that will help new players both in terms of telling strategy and killing bosses if requested. Manners works both ways, it is just a rude to put people through misery because the group decide to do the instances in a different manner than the one that only you wanted.

HMFP are a social part of the game, so everyone in the group should be considered important. So if someone is rude and you want to punish them, careful that you donít also punish the other members of the team too or donít be surprised when you are kicked from the group. People will put up with a rude tank or healer in a HMFP (particular if they are good) because it is more expedient than waiting for a replacement. Is it right, no, but base on the roles make up the server it is a fact.

I take offense to your saying people buy expensive gear. I worked to get my gear, I worked to optimize my gear, my toon wore a stupid cape for 7 months because it gave my group the best chance to complete a instances over my wanting to look good. I have grind HMFP, Dailies and Weeklies to get my gear. Yes, I may be overgeared for HMFP, but my gear gives my team the best chance to get through HM TfB and NiM EC and I assure you I am not overgeared for either of those.

Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
It's a type of bragging the player does to say they have more money and can get better things... That's not what the game is about.
It is not about what the game is to you. Not everyone plays the game for the same reason. Getting gear to help tackle harder content is what the game is about to some. If getting dreadguard implants will increase my healing at all which will improve my groups chances to complete NiM EC, then I am doing HMFP for no other reason than Black Hole comms to get the implants. Really without the incentive to do Hard Mode Flashpoints, what is the point after doing each 50 or more times?

Personally I donít mind helping others get gear, but I am not crazy about helping those that refuse to help themselves. People that refuse to do dailies for rakata ear, implants and relics, people that wear 40 something gear instead of getting the free Tionese. Someone comes into HMFP in any 50 gear and I will do everything possible to complete the instances with that full group. However, if people donít put the best interest of the group first and show up in green 45 gear, then I will not say anything if the others vote kick them. Been in too many groups where people just wanted to be carried to gear in operations, not going back to those days.

On a personal note, I have made some of the biggest bonehead and noob mistakes in both operations and HMFP. I have also never been kicked from a hardmode flashpoint or operation. You may think it is because my main is a healer, but I also run them on two dps. I would like to think it is because I am really good, but I know for a fact there are way better players than me. I believe it is because I am social, I always say hello, when I make a mistake I apologize and I never blame anyone for a wipe. I try to treat the entire group with respect because I understand the entire group is important to the group's success.

Suzina's Avatar


Suzina
01.10.2013 , 01:50 PM | #205
I would recommend finding a guild who likes to run some hard mode level 50 flashpoints. With group finder you are getting one of three people:

1. People who run flashpoints so many times a day that even their guild is sick of them (these people rush rush rush)
2. People who are so annoying their guild won't invite them to a flashpoint, even if they need their class (These people are asses)
3. Everyone else.

Group 3 isn't a problem, but out of the 4 people in a flashpoint group, you're going to get one of the first two types. At this point, no new flashpoints have been added since January of 2012, so most people say "spacebar now, youtube later" for hard mode flashpoints at 50. And most groups do skip all the trash in a jetpack-tank kinda way. Your best bet is to say at the start of the flashpoint, "This is my first time doing this hard mode" or something to that effect, otherwise, you are expected to rush through, know all the trash-skips and such.

Hell, even I went through similar stuff because I didn't do flashpoints after hitting 50. The gear was better from operations until they added black-hole comms for group finder, so going into flashpoints at that point I had to learn how to skip trash and it can suck. Luckily, I had some guild mates.
Member of Bane Fleet

DSpectre's Avatar


DSpectre
01.10.2013 , 03:31 PM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzina View Post
I would recommend finding a guild who likes to run some hard mode level 50 flashpoints. With group finder you are getting one of three people:

1. People who run flashpoints so many times a day that even their guild is sick of them (these people rush rush rush)
2. People who are so annoying their guild won't invite them to a flashpoint, even if they need their class (These people are asses)
3. Everyone else.

Group 3 isn't a problem, but out of the 4 people in a flashpoint group, you're going to get one of the first two types. At this point, no new flashpoints have been added since January of 2012, so most people say "spacebar now, youtube later" for hard mode flashpoints at 50. And most groups do skip all the trash in a jetpack-tank kinda way. Your best bet is to say at the start of the flashpoint, "This is my first time doing this hard mode" or something to that effect, otherwise, you are expected to rush through, know all the trash-skips and such.

Hell, even I went through similar stuff because I didn't do flashpoints after hitting 50. The gear was better from operations until they added black-hole comms for group finder, so going into flashpoints at that point I had to learn how to skip trash and it can suck. Luckily, I had some guild mates.
Well I've done 2 harmode flashpoints since this post and both those times I got into. Group of decent people who have run the flashpoint once, maybe twice wearing end game or pvp or tionese 50 stuff.

At the same time didn't know about the flashpoint history. Have to say tho, when certain people are given incentive for something, they immediately become self centered and won't openly help or become involved unless forced.

Where I'm going with this is a whole other point...

Why can't the experienced in turn; ask if anyone is new the hardmode. Before I get re-smashed for not myself asking first, I'm offering a mere counterpoint. In the same breath I can be responsible for saying I'm new to HM, but also why can't those other players ask if anyone is new.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."
―Revan

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.10.2013 , 03:34 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
...

Why can't the experienced in turn; ask if anyone is new the hardmode. Before I get re-smashed for not myself asking first, I'm offering a mere counterpoint. In the same breath I can be responsible for saying I'm new to HM, but also why can't those other players ask if anyone is new.
I do this.

GF Pops, load intance

"Hello!"
(get various hellos back)
"Everyone know this FP?"
(if anyone says No I say)
"Coolio, I'll explain boss fights as we get to them"

Edit: Actually, I only usually ask if someone has low hp. If the player has good gear but doesn't know the instance they had better speak up, as I'm assuming they know what they're doing.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.10.2013 , 03:42 PM | #208
I admit, I don't. First thing I do is say hello, then I play follow the leader with the tank unless someone says they are new or if they are extremely slow. If they are slow, I will slow down and wait or go back for them. Different tanks do different bosses and pull trash differently. I feel I would be stepping on the tanks toes if I started explain how we were going to tackle a boss. If someone is new and they tell me they are new. I will whisper to them to follow me and not to worry about anything as long as they don't fall to their death I will keep their toon on their feet and to just have fun.

Mireleni's Avatar


Mireleni
01.10.2013 , 07:07 PM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
In the same breath I can be responsible for saying I'm new to HM, but also why can't those other players ask if anyone is new.
Sometimes I'll be in a flashpoint where someone will ask if anyone is new, but I think more often people assume new people will volunteer that information themselves. That's just because most of the time, we're with people who have done it before (think: each player can only be new to the flashpoint once, whereas everyone can do it with previous experience an infinite number of times). You can get away with not admitting you're unfamiliar with the flashpoint, but I'd say once you start doing things like accidentally aggroing groups others are skipping, dying for bad reasons (falling off ledges, or crossing into the deadly snow zone on Battle of Ilum), or wiping the group (whether or not it's entirely your fault), you should probably say something like, "Sorry, I haven't done this flashpoint on hard mode before" or something like that. When I was new, people were usually tolerant and even supportive when I admitted it was my first time.

As for the conversations, many people think that if you want the story, you should play story mode. I'm OK with people listening to the conversations as long as it's not Esseles or BT, because those have a LOT of talking. If you need to refresh your memory on what they're about, you can always solo story mode.

It's definitely tough at first when you start doing hard modes (it does help to have done everything at least once in story mode), because you're in with much better geared people who are used to sleepwalking through these things and just want the 5 BH comms at the end. I know it took me more than a couple runs before I could navigate through Taral V unguided, and still sometimes I'll slip up and aggro an extra group. But a humble apology usually fixes it (e.g. "So sorry!!!" "np, took us all of 10 secs to clean up"). Say you're new, follow the tank, and apologize for mistakes. If you've done these things and people are still mean, then they're just jerks. There are definitely some of those, too.
Visit my Vacation Retreat on Tatooine!
Revan: You just called me a meatbag again!
HK-47: Explanation: It's just that...you have all these squishy parts, master. And all that water! How the constant sloshing doesn't drive you mad, I have no idea.

river_of_Gem's Avatar


river_of_Gem
01.10.2013 , 11:24 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
Why can't the experienced in turn; ask if anyone is new the hardmode. Before I get re-smashed for not myself asking first, I'm offering a mere counterpoint. In the same breath I can be responsible for saying I'm new to HM, but also why can't those other players ask if anyone is new.
I don't think i can ever understand you, you are new and need help/instruction and other have to ask if you need help ?