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Hardmode "manners"


jeniyagyu's Avatar


jeniyagyu
01.06.2013 , 06:35 AM | #131
I think most of the problem is that people will go into Flashpoints already angry and thus their patients will wear thin a lot of faster or there will be none at all.

I, myself, have never been votekicked (I have left before) but, I have kicked people for 13k-14k health. Why? Because I asked them if they knew about the free gear, their response? "I don't need it, people, like you, will carry me!" Otherwise, if they say they didn't know, I let it side cuz unless you go and pick up all the weekly's and stuff, you really don't know about the free gear or some people will read about it and forget, I forget alot of stuff.

I will not put up with stuff that I, personally, would never to do anyone else! Why should I put up with things I would make sure I would do to no one out of courtesy?? Tionese Gear + Recruit Implants/Weapons/Etc = 16K hp atleast (I did this on my jugg dps not long ago.) Otherwise, I am ok with just Tionese gear, cuz most pve'ers don't think to use the pvp gear set for anything. (I've grouped with guildies that have wanted to kick a person right off for low hp, but when I see that they are at least trying (Daily Gear/Tionese/ETC), I tell my guildies not to and we proceed.)

I also did a HM D7 once where the entire group voted to do the bonus boss. It was fun, no one had anything to do, and we were like, "Lol, that boss was crazy". But there are also times when I'm not feeling well or social and just want to do my stuff, it happens.

About spacebaring, I really don't care either way, someone wants to watch, that is ok with me, I'll go get a refill of my drink or check my phone/facebook/twitter.

When I tank, I ask. When I dps, I follow the tank. When I heal, I follow the tank.

DemonicPenguin's Avatar


DemonicPenguin
01.06.2013 , 06:56 AM | #132
You have these issues in Hardmode? Hardmode is "hardmode" for a reason, when I hit 50 and wanted to get my HK stuff I just followed the groups lead. I don't remember what my HP is, but I never had any problems with the three hardmodes I ran through. I've run into these problems just in story mode regarding spacebar and trying to skip all the bonus/trash mobs.

Nasja's Avatar


Nasja
01.06.2013 , 07:37 AM | #133
First of all flashpoints have been edited to remove some groups of mobs within the flashpoints, lowering the amount you have to fight. Second the scoundrel can knockout mobs (CC) without causing aggro. Come on they gave us the ability and tools to do so.

CC isn't an ability to use to skip npc's, it is there for example to aggro 1 npc in stead of 2.

Normal CC such as the force lift is what you describe. The smuggler's CC can be used before combat without any aggro. If they wanted us to have to fight every mob they wouldn't have given us the ability to CC trash mobs without aggro.

Smuggler & Imperial Agent are 1 out of 4 classes, it's not a given that one will be included in Group Finder, some see it as a bonus, others as a requirement because they can skippie.... You know my opinion, make a point Bioware.. either remove them completely or make them unable to be skipped.


I've been here since closed beta - I would of quit shortly after if I couldn't use the spacebar. I enjoy the clips, though not enough to watch them a 100 times. I'm all fine with rewatching them if somebody hasn't been through; though people shouldn't be forced to watch them. That would be a horrible design.

No because with the exception of Esseles / Black Talon there are just a few cutscenes inside FP's. They hardly matter.

You clearly don't have alts (or many at least) if you think that. Also this goes beyond flashpoints. This includes doing normal quests, which talking to the npc takes longer than the quest itself.

Lol, always talking about game experience right. Maybe I have a life besides this game and you don't
But yeah, I do have plenty of alts. Actually 8 toons on 1 server, most of the time I quit playing an alt after I reach 50 though. Anyways, no one has a problem with being able to skip text in normal quests, you solo them anyways but that isn't the case in fp's where youll find different people doing the same content.


Freedom to play how you would enjoy is a bad game design? I see..... No, no I don't.

As we can see, in group content there are different people with different opinions. You get both verbal pvp in game and forum pvp here just because there are different ways to play the same flashpoint. One prefers this, the others prefer that and when you play the fp in a group finder queue you get the people who smacktalk other people just because of their preference. That is a bad game design.

If the devs removed all trash mobs from for example hard modes then there wouldn't be any need to skip because they simply aren't there.. see what I mean.

There are four of you, take a vote. Person that doesn't get their way can either go along or leave. It's a group finder, if you want to dictate other players' action form a group without the group finder. Using the group finder is a cooperative tool. Work together or get kicked - for most parts. Harsh but it's better than LFG. I personally never kick people, but that's the mentality of the system.

For the most part it works fine; I rarely ever find pugs with drama in them.

Somehow... there are plenty of these threads and there will be many more in the future about this subject. I say Bioware should simply dictate the playstyle in flashpoints, then people would all do the same because there is very little choice. Simplest solution. I sometimes found drama in fp's especially when someone has little time and wants to do quickly quickly mode and found a few people who scavenge every droid, pick up every bit of loot and never skip any npc, and also watch every line in a convo. There are people who watch the same movie every day. Is there anything wrong with that?

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.06.2013 , 07:40 AM | #134
I love how this has nothing to do with elitist and anti-elitist players whatever you imagine those labels to represent.

My Pub mains are from a casual guild, my Imp is from a progression guild, yet personally progression is better on Pub, I keyboard-turn, backpeddal, have binds as far as shift+7 and play on laptop from Europe with under 15 fps and over 200 ping, so tell me how exactly does skipping bosses and convos make me elitist?

There is limited time that many people have to play this game, sometimes all they want to do is finish their dailies and get back to work. In fact these are the real non-elitist casual players who simply do not have the opportunity or willingness to commit enough time to the game to sit through convos and kill every last mob in a FP. People like you are being very rude to such people and then go whine on forums. Not sure if troll or...

So glad I run FPs as Heals or Tank so I can always just leave and get a better group. "TY for good quick run" shows just how much people appreciate those runs.
No One Important Died Tavernus - Sorc / Taverna - Mara / Pintus - Op / Gintonica - PT
The Red Eclipse. Sweet Dreams to all my Harbinger children.

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.06.2013 , 09:48 AM | #135
As a number of individuals have pointed out this is not an issue of "Elitist vs. Non-Elitist" players, but as the thread title ironically states, it is an issue of manners.

However, the OP is clearly not accustomed to End Game play. The initial breach in manners was hers.

Anyone who has been 50 for more than a week understands what the Elder Game is.
1) Daily Mission Grind for Money and Daily Commendations to purchase DG Relics
2) HardMode Group Finder Missions for Black Hole Commendations for Gear
3) Story Mode Operation Runs
4) HM Operation Runs
5) NiM Operation Runs

Add in a little crafting and you have the totality of a PVE-Endgame Schedule.

Proper Decorum in a Hard Mode Flashpoint is as follows:
1) Expediency unless full clear was articulated on grouping
2) Space-Bar during Conversations unless otherwise stated
3) Newbies/First Timers mentioning they do not know Mechanics (which include skip-route)
4) Do not aggro trash mobs during the route, as the skip-routes have a tendency to isolate healers.

Violation of these are grounds for a vote-kick if you do not apologize, conform, and move on.

Wipes are immensely expensive and can cost upwards of 30,000 credits.
The reason that is a concern is because endgame crafted gear (that Advanced Resolve 27 Hilt I am trying to buy) is extremely expensive and making money represents an immense time-sink.

Going into a HM FP should be both time efficient and profitable for all involved.

You will find that it is not a limited minority of "Elitist Players" who seek to skip content.
It is the vast majority of the End-Game PVE community, as the HM FPs lost their luster some time ago.

New 50s always have this complaint and eventually acclimate when they realize they cannot enjoy the Operation Story Mode in their Tionese Gear and that they have gated themselves behind a gear wall while interesting and new content is waiting for you.

As a DPS to say you are a dime a dozen would be to overvalue your Group Role.
Follow the Tank as he will decide what you aggro and do not over-stress your healers by aggroing your entire group and pulling threat in your 16k Hit Point gear.

Likewise, as this is a social game if you look to override your average group's desire to skip Black Talon's Story Mode on literally the more than hundredth time through you are being selfish and will likely be kicked.

It is an issue of manners.

So, everyone should learn some.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
01.06.2013 , 10:05 AM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Zamppa View Post
There is an option in the ticket system called "report harrassing behaviour" or something like that. I find kicks from GF generated groups as much harrassing as I find people calling names in the chat etc. I also got a response to the ticket the next day where BW representative thanked me for the info and said they will investigate and possibly take action. I'm not interested if they do take action or not but now they atleast know what's happening in the HMs and how some people behave towards others in there. It's BW's decission what they are going to do about it.
you got the generic response that translates to we won't do squat. If you read the rules of conduct you are not supposed to report first. There are steps to follow. You are first supposed to make a reasonable effort to resolve the issue. So you have to ask them to stop the behaviour. If they ignore that then you are supposed to put them on ignore. If your ignore list is full or they persist by having other chars message you that is when you are supposed to resort to opening a ticket. Sometimes I feel like no one reads the rules, follows them, or enforces them properly in the live game.
You are better off just using your ignore list so you never have to group with them again.

Jarnuk's Avatar


Jarnuk
01.06.2013 , 10:34 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
I love how this has nothing to do with elitist and anti-elitist players whatever you imagine those labels to represent.

My Pub mains are from a casual guild, my Imp is from a progression guild, yet personally progression is better on Pub, I keyboard-turn, backpeddal, have binds as far as shift+7 and play on laptop from Europe with under 15 fps and over 200 ping, so tell me how exactly does skipping bosses and convos make me elitist?

There is limited time that many people have to play this game, sometimes all they want to do is finish their dailies and get back to work. In fact these are the real non-elitist casual players who simply do not have the opportunity or willingness to commit enough time to the game to sit through convos and kill every last mob in a FP. People like you are being very rude to such people and then go whine on forums. Not sure if troll or...

So glad I run FPs as Heals or Tank so I can always just leave and get a better group. "TY for good quick run" shows just how much people appreciate those runs.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Except your pub and Imp guilds have the same progression other than that; perfectly said. It's about respecting your group mates time. I'm in the 8th grade and taking college level courses; yet my parents still affect how much I can play. If I have a project or paper to do, I can't spend all day watching cutscenes that I've seen since Beta. Honestly, you saying you were going to muddle up speed runs is laughable. People like me don't have all day to waste for minimum gains at anything. One daily probably nets me more credits than an entire FP (excluding the actual daily quest) and when shooting for those last few BiS 63 mods...it all counts. So please. Before you go off and mess up other runs for people, learn a little about respect for other players time/resources
Reigis
APEX

Jarnuk's Avatar


Jarnuk
01.06.2013 , 10:55 AM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Zamppa View Post
I did not read your sig through with too much attention because I simply do not care, thanks to your attitude

Cool stats you have there, lets see if anyone actually care how many minutes it takes from you to clear this and that For me it actually sounds terrible if one has to measure how many minutes they have LOST their time to play this and that instance of the game.

The bolded sentence just made my sunday morning! Incredible how such a short sentence can create people so much joy and fun! "We don't play that mission because it takes too much time, like 30 minutes which is like 10 more minutes than some other missions", man it must have been terrible when you have been leveling your chars, think how many HOURS of time you have lost doing all those missions and possibly pvp in those same instances!

But anyway thanks for the answer! Now people who do not want to clock the time they take when doing those instances can just happily ignore you and your guild I also give you a friendly advice just for free: go and do those missions you want to do with your guildies and stay out of Group Finder. That will spare a lot of stress and anger from you and from other players who want to sit down and enjoy the instances. It's a true win-win situation for everyone!
Well it seems that you must just be clueless because all his responses are in white while his guild name is in bright red and caps. Kinda hard to read over that. Good luck getting Atriss to take advice from you just for the record. One of the very best Dps in this game; yet hard headed as a mutha ****a...great person though. Incredibly funny in mumble, amazing raid leader, and super helpful when he needs to be (wished he showed that on the forums). I personally love leveling alts together because he knows so much about the game that the tips he has provided help a lot of us out. But I digress...point is; he's not as much of an *** as he shows here.

His issue is players in the elder game having zero clue how it works. And that's what I think this post comes down to.
While the OP did indeed make mistakes in the GF run; they were rookie mistakes and should have been fixed. Where Atriss and I'm guessing the other actual elder game players got offended was on page 8(?) where the OP said that she was going to make speed runs miserable for the perceived "elitists". Without that post; I imagine this would have gone much much smoother. And people could have moved on to letting the players who like stories and full FP's enjoy the slow runs and people who have 5 toons to do dailies (PvE and pvp) get on with their speed runs
Reigis
APEX

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.06.2013 , 11:25 AM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Jarnuk View Post
While the OP did indeed make mistakes in the GF run; they were rookie mistakes and should have been fixed. Where Atriss and I'm guessing the other actual elder game players got offended was on page 8(?) where the OP said that she was going to make speed runs miserable for the perceived "elitists". Without that post; I imagine this would have gone much much smoother. And people could have moved on to letting the players who like stories and full FP's enjoy the slow runs and people who have 5 toons to do dailies (PvE and pvp) get on with their speed runs
Correct.

Zamppa's Avatar


Zamppa
01.06.2013 , 12:43 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by Jarnuk View Post
Well it seems that you must just be clueless because all his responses are in white while his guild name is in bright red and caps. Kinda hard to read over that. Good luck getting Atriss to take advice from you just for the record. One of the very best Dps in this game; yet hard headed as a mutha ****a...great person though. Incredibly funny in mumble, amazing raid leader, and super helpful when he needs to be (wished he showed that on the forums). I personally love leveling alts together because he knows so much about the game that the tips he has provided help a lot of us out. But I digress...point is; he's not as much of an *** as he shows here.

His issue is players in the elder game having zero clue how it works. And that's what I think this post comes down to.
While the OP did indeed make mistakes in the GF run; they were rookie mistakes and should have been fixed. Where Atriss and I'm guessing the other actual elder game players got offended was on page 8(?) where the OP said that she was going to make speed runs miserable for the perceived "elitists". Without that post; I imagine this would have gone much much smoother. And people could have moved on to letting the players who like stories and full FP's enjoy the slow runs and people who have 5 toons to do dailies (PvE and pvp) get on with their speed runs
I'm happy you like to play with him and enjoy your time. I know I would not and that's that. Although I have to say those stats about your runs, how many minutes this and that took made me laugh so hard! People boosting their ego and "reputation" on forums with how many minutes it takes to clear an instance, it was a total

I do have 4 50s and I sign in the one I feel like playing the day. If I want to slice people, I play my mara, or if I want to shoot lightning I play my sorc etc. I really can't understand people who want to do same dailies 5 times a day
"What can you say - I'm a talented individual"
- Revan to Bastila on Taris