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Why does it feel like that Jedi Shadow tanks are squishy in pvp?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why does it feel like that Jedi Shadow tanks are squishy in pvp?

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
01.04.2013 , 02:36 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
Someone once told me that damage taken via guard shares the same mechanics it used on the original target. IE, white damage that hits your guarded sage will apply to you as a regular white damage attack, and maybe (stretching it here) be shielded as well. Whereas yellow damage or internal damage will also be yellow or internal when it deals damage to you through your guard.
A good way to test this would be to have a sniper attack your guarded sage and see if your dark ward charges decrease.
HEARSAY: damage redirected via guard to the tank gets armor and buff mitigation (e.g. guardian warding call) but not shield mitigation. That is, shield mitigation only applies to attacks directed at the shield wielder. I googled this topic a bit a while back and was able to find the hearsay but not anyone who claimed to have tested and verified this claim.

It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the {melee/ranged, force/tech} x {white dmg, yellow dmg} characteristic of the attack is used for both the primary target and the tank guard. Indeed, it is hard to imagine an alternative that does not seem nonsensical.

I forgot that I wanted to run some experiments to look into this. Thanks for reminding me.

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SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
01.04.2013 , 03:01 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
Even with full elite war hero gear, it just doesn't add up why I get killed so quickly, so it just me or does the empire have more arsenal at there disposal than we do? The Inquisitors have more stuns than any class, your completely helpless when your stunned to the point of no return, yet you don't see consulars providing that amount of stuns at there disposal, it's almost like our absorb and shields are useless against power/surge/critical attacks because my HP bar drains rather quickly against them.

Shadow tanks could use a boost of something
If you're surrounded by 2 lolsmashers, probably even 1, you're probably going to die as a shadow tank with tank gear. Actually, if you're fighting pretty much anything as a shadow tank with tank gear, you're probably going to die. After the nerf to armor and self heals in 1.3, shadow tanks in tank gear are pretty much useless in pvp. People can claim otherwise, but no way they can take the same amount of hits as a tank geared/spec'd guardian/vanguard.

As for empire vs republic, they're mirror classes, so assassin tanks in tank gear are equally weak.

Switch to dps gear and you'll have a lot less problems.
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SomeJagoff
01.04.2013 , 03:13 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by MindgameZ View Post
nice guys finish last
lmao!
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stephenalandavie's Avatar


stephenalandavie
01.04.2013 , 03:25 PM | #44
Lmao sorry i near choked on a bagel with this title. is this some form of joke?.

Shadow tanks/DPS tanks are squishy?. Do you actually play a shadow?.

I run a Infil Hybrid so i am squishy. But even i dont die that much unless focused.

Dont get focused use an ounce of common sense.
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
01.04.2013 , 04:02 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by stephenalandavie View Post
I run a Infil Hybrid so i am squishy. But even i dont die that much unless focused.
I wouldn't say Infiltration Shadows are squishy, considering they are DPS.
On the other hand, Balance Shadows are squishy.

As for Kinetic Shadows, even if they are sturdier than Infiltration, their surviabilty in PvP for a tank is somewhat low in comparison of what I call "a tank".

RaithHarth's Avatar


RaithHarth
01.04.2013 , 04:10 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
If you're surrounded by 2 lolsmashers, probably even 1, you're probably going to die as a shadow tank with tank gear. Actually, if you're fighting pretty much anything as a shadow tank with tank gear, you're probably going to die. After the nerf to armor and self heals in 1.3, shadow tanks in tank gear are pretty much useless in pvp. People can claim otherwise, but no way they can take the same amount of hits as a tank geared/spec'd guardian/vanguard.

As for empire vs republic, they're mirror classes, so assassin tanks in tank gear are equally weak.

Switch to dps gear and you'll have a lot less problems.
shadow tanks that wear tank gear are probably going to die? that sounds like it could be a balance issue that needs to be addressed to bioware.
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SomeJagoff
01.04.2013 , 04:45 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
shadow tanks that wear tank gear are probably going to die? that sounds like it could be a balance issue that needs to be addressed to bioware.
it was addressed to bioware, and bioware nerfed armor and self heals, then increased the amount of time you can be stunned even longer, so even less self heals. A lot of people wanted to keep the armor rating and no self heals, myself included, but that would require them to actually redesign the class and its mechanics, which they won't do. Tanksins with DPS gear were too overpowered in pvp, so a nerf was put into place. Result? Tankasins with DPS gear still powerful, slightly less survivability, and Tankasins with tank gear is like a sorc without the bubble, except sorcs can at least do damage.

The only workaround is to not use tank gear for pvp, period. Even in huttball, just grab the ball and toss it to a lolsmasher or a tank jugg/vanguard, they're more likely to outlast the sin in tank gear.
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RaithHarth's Avatar


RaithHarth
01.04.2013 , 05:02 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
it was addressed to bioware, and bioware nerfed armor and self heals, then increased the amount of time you can be stunned even longer, so even less self heals. A lot of people wanted to keep the armor rating and no self heals, myself included, but that would require them to actually redesign the class and its mechanics, which they won't do. Tanksins with DPS gear were too overpowered in pvp, so a nerf was put into place. Result? Tankasins with DPS gear still powerful, slightly less survivability, and Tankasins with tank gear is like a sorc without the bubble, except sorcs can at least do damage.

The only workaround is to not use tank gear for pvp, period. Even in huttball, just grab the ball and toss it to a lolsmasher or a tank jugg/vanguard, they're more likely to outlast the sin in tank gear.
Is bioware going to fix this mistake? sounds to me to be a major problem
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Z-ToXiN's Avatar


Z-ToXiN
01.04.2013 , 05:08 PM | #49
Shadow tank in full tank gear doesn't feel squishy to me. Not as survivable as a fully geared jugg tank, but the difference between tank in DPS gear and tank in tank gear is enormous.

Lots of people do DPS gear in Tank spec. Which is a perfectly good tank/dps hybrid and is fine for most regs. But full tank gear makes a big difference in survivability. Especially if you have a good healer on your team. You can survive things you definitely would not in DPS gear. Get full tank gear, think like a tank, play like a tank, and you will feel like a tank.
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RaithHarth's Avatar


RaithHarth
01.04.2013 , 08:03 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Z-ToXiN View Post
Shadow tank in full tank gear doesn't feel squishy to me. Not as survivable as a fully geared jugg tank, but the difference between tank in DPS gear and tank in tank gear is enormous.

Lots of people do DPS gear in Tank spec. Which is a perfectly good tank/dps hybrid and is fine for most regs. But full tank gear makes a big difference in survivability. Especially if you have a good healer on your team. You can survive things you definitely would not in DPS gear. Get full tank gear, think like a tank, play like a tank, and you will feel like a tank.
Shadow tanks are only as good as there support, I've noticed in most cases especially with republic players who lack healers in there group, while the empire premades are pretty balanced out with them.
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