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Kaggath Heats: Tyber Zann vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: Tyber Zann vs G0-T0

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 06:34 PM | #11
No Twin Suns.... Well then I guess this scenario doesn't count. But I'm gonna say it anyway because I'm proud of it.

Zann is a slaver. The Twin Suns, exceptionally beautiful twi'leks and former slaves, pose as slaves once again. Using their.... Skills and manipulation, they convince their handlers to move them up the ladder, eventually becoming slaves/dancers for Zann himself. Not one to deny luxury, Zann would greatly appreciate obtaining such stunning women such as the Twin Suns. Famous for freeing themselves before by killing their master, the Twin Suns would do so again, killing the unsuspecting leader of the Consortium.

So yeah..., doesn't count, but hey, I thought that was a pretty good assassination plan. So figured I'd post it.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
01.01.2013 , 07:55 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Didn't G0-T0 effectively have an unlimited supply of HK-50s though... HK-50s probably outclassed droidekas because they actually had some intelligence, tanks can be destroyed, and as to soldiers they wouldn't have a consistent level of skill and the HK-50s are more easily replaceable.

The other flaw in the argument is that Zann would still have his droidekas... G0-T0 was an expert at seizing control of droids. G0-T0 could easily walk off with a substancial amount of Zann's forces, even have them turn on Zann at the drop of a hat.



G0-T0 would likely have an easier time locating Zann, than Zann would have locating G0-T0, the crime boss Goto never existed, but Zann wouldn't know that. Plus G0-T0 can easily reprogram large numbers of droids, meaning G0-T0 could easily have droid spies in Zann's organization without Zann realizing it.



Interesting take, but I'm going to consider this brawl to be irrelevent in the grand scheme of the overall war.



Problem with that argument is that G0-T0 has a built in stealth field generator, the most likely one to win that kind of a fight would be Zann, but it wouldn't be a landslide victory and could just as easily end up with G0-T0 winning.



Considering G0-T0 can easily hijack part of Zann's armed forces right off the bat, it's safe to assume that Zann will have a sudden and rather bloody decrease in manpower as the droidekas turn on his soldiers.

Additionally, the fleet Zann has is relatively worthless because G0-T0's base of operations is completely mobile and cloaked. Then you add in the unlimited HK-50's (which are also walking explosive devices), and I don't see Zann continuing to enjoy his large army.



I find that to be extremely unlikely.

Zann will be hunting for "Goto" whom doesn't even exist, G0-T0 made him up, so we have Zann trying to hunt down an individual that doesn't exist, never suspecting he's battling against a droid.

Unless Zann is very lucky, I don't see how G0-T0 can lose this fight short of extremely bad luck.
Yes, HK-50s had intelligence, so that is true and will after a few times, figure a way around the droidekas.
I find no source saying GO-TO can control other droids....
GO-TOs Yacht would very likley not be found by Zann's forces, but if things got bad on the ground, he'd be pretty much forced to do something.
HK-50s are unlimited, but they don't really fight as a coordinated army would, not in a battlefield (well, can't really be said since there's no combat examples in the middle of a battlefield)
If Zann would be hunting Goto, explain the last kaggath where plaegius knew his enemy was a droid....

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 07:59 PM | #13
NOTE: This battle will take place on Nar Shaddaa, seeing as GO-TO will not move and Zann will want to gain credits and influence on the planet.


G0-T0 Forces

-Jekk’jekk Tar Partons
-Exchange Thugs/ Pirates
-Gand Nest
-Zhug Brothers
-Hanharr
-HK Droids

Zann Weaknesses

-Most of Tech is from 2 factions
Most of Zann's tech came from the Rebels and the Empire. He pirated their ships and used their tech. Without these organizations, his military power is greatly reduced.

-Good at open warfare
It won't help him here. His greatest ground advantage is his Defilers. All his tanks and stuff won't do him any good.

-“Corruption” will not work on Nar Shaddaa
All that piracy and racketeering and slavery won't make a dent on Nar Shaddaa, where GO-TO already has an operation set up.

-Leader: just an ordinary man
There is nothing special about Zann. He's a guy. He has a stealth generator and a bunch of money, but that's about it.He's easy to kill.

-Leader: Arrogant and cocky
Zann is very likely to make some kind of stupid mistake. He likes credits and fame, so his drive may lead him to make a personal apperance on Nar Shaddaa... his doom.


G0-T0 Strengths

-Stealth (G0-T0 and Command Ship)
GO-TO can hide forever. Just because Zann has stealth tech as well does not mean he knows how to detect it.

-Powerbase = assassins
GO-TO is all about assassinations. His power base reflects this.

-Not vulnerable to open warfare
GO-TO couldn't care less about open warfare. You can't fight a war with tanks on Nar Shaddaa, and his lack of a real fleet means he has no interest in space combat either.

-All forces able to disappear and be mobile on their own
All forces are masters of the underworld. They know how to disappear and work on the streets of Nar Shaddaa.

-Zhug and Gand = bounty hunters (put bounty on Tyber)
GO-TO can place an unlimited bounty on Zann, seeing as he will never have to pay it. This will set not only GO-TOs bounty hunters, but every other bounty hunter on Nar Shaddaa, after Zann.

-Exchange = infamous and rich
GO-TO is a very important Exchange boss, and during its time the Exchange was one of the most infamous in the galaxy. The Exchange also fought off the Hutt Cartel on their own front door (Nar Shaddaa), so they know what they're doing with underworld fighting.

-Hack Zann Droids (Infrastructure / Droidekas)
Droidekas turn on Zann once GO-TO hacks them. Because of his skills, it shouldn't be hard for GO-TO. His ship also acts as a droid control ship, already controlling thousands of droids.


G0-T0 Personal Strengths

-Stealth
This makes G0-T0 nearly invinsible 1v1. Zann's usage of stealth as well will take away some of this advantage, but not all.

-Droid Corruption (corrupt Consortium infrastructure droid)
Remember that nifty little ability GO-TO had, corrupt droid? Yeah, that's gonna be a BIG factor, with taking over the Droidekas.

-Poison expert
Being a droid that looks strangely like a torture droid, GO-TO knows a thing or two about poison. He's immune to it's affects, but can certainly use it. Poison gas would be very valuble,

-Able to transfer
Let's not forget this little ability. If cornered, GO-TO can just transfer away.

-Super-smart
GO-TO can't make stupid mistakes, he's a droid. He has no sense of pride. He's cold and tactical.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 08:04 PM | #14
This is my little plan. In other words, what GO-TO should and probably would, do.

G0-T0 Scenario:
1.)Primary Action
- Place bounty on Zann (Limitless, doesn’t have to pay)
- Hide on Stealth Ship
- Mobilize HK Factory

2.)Hack Zann Droids
- Droidekas
- Zann Report Droid

3.)Enforce Nar Shaddaa
- Mobilize Zhug Brothers
- Mobilize Gand Nest
- Mobilize Jekk’jekk Tar Forces
Snuff out Defilers and other grunts

4.)Bribe and Maintain Loyalty
- Mobilize Exchange (XP with underworld fighting: Hutt Cartel)
- Crush any tiny effects of Racketeering/Black Market/Piracy

5.)Assassinations
- Gand
- HKs
-Bounty Hunter
-Zhug Brothers
Zann may expose himself to gain support

6.)Endgame 1 (If no death by assassin)
- G0-T0 and Hanharr vs. Zann and Urai
- Zann and G0-T0 stealth while Hanharr and hawk-man battle it out
- Regardless of who wins, G0-T0 can release toxic gas to kill Tyber

7.) Endgame 2 (If no death by assassins)
- Urai is captured while gaining support on Nar Shaddaa (Very hands-on)
- Urai is held captive on The Visonary, and Tyber comes to save him
- Traps and internal defenses such as droids kill Zann and/or his guards
- G0-T0 and/or Hanharr kill Zann 1v1 or 1v2


Winner: G0-T0

Opportunities to kill Zann:
-Report droid tells of hiding place and Zann is assassinated
-Droidekas turn on Zann
-Any number of assassination attempts
-Zann gets too cocky on Nar Shaddaa trying to win support
-One of own men/ Defilers hired to kill him\
-Killed by traps or The Visionary Droids
-2v2 or 1v1 or 1v2 fight

That's just the outline. I'll defend and build points as I need to.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
01.01.2013 , 08:05 PM | #15
I'd vote G0-T0.

It'd be close as Zann has the advantage in manpower and supplies but G0-T0's HK-50's will likely carry the day for him with a bloody assault on Zann himself where the HK's fulfill their primary use- assassinations.

Powerbase vs. Powerbase, Zann's forces are superior and G0-T0 is effectively forced to fight from the shadows here

1v1 it comes down to the saying "location, location, location". Home field advantage will be everything so whoever likes the location better will win imo.
"You appear to have decided I'm an idiot."
―Darth Caedus, to Admiral Ratobo

Shadowlands
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Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 08:15 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Segastorm View Post
I find no source saying GO-TO can control other droids....
GO-TOs Yacht would very likley not be found by Zann's forces, but if things got bad on the ground, he'd be pretty much forced to do something.
HK-50s are unlimited, but they don't really fight as a coordinated army would, not in a battlefield (well, can't really be said since there's no combat examples in the middle of a battlefield)
If Zann would be hunting Goto, explain the last kaggath where plaegius knew his enemy was a droid....
G0-T0 can hack droids. Being a super-smart droid, he can hack droids. Just look at how he and the Visionary control all those droids. Also, in KOTOR II, he has an ability called Corrupt Droid. It makes a droid turn on its owners and fight for G0-T0 and the Exile. Even if you make the argument that he can only Corrupt droids in person, it still allows him to corrupt the Zann Information Droid and Droideka factories, all without being seen.

HK are assassins, not soldiers. But what "battleground" are you talking about? Nar Shaddaa is hardly a place for open warfare. Also, don't forget that G0-T0 has the Exchange Thugs and Jekk'Jekk Tar people to help fight too.

Zann knowing G0-T0 is a droid doesn't change anything. He will still not be able to find him. Actually, if Zann assumes that G0-T0 can hack his droids, it might work against him as he would stop using Droidekas altogether (if he was smart).
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 08:21 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
1v1 it comes down to the saying "location, location, location". Home field advantage will be everything so whoever likes the location better will win imo.
I just want to throw it out there that G0-T0 is more powerful than HK-47.

Yep, you heard right. In cut content from KOTOR 2, G0-T0 tries to prevent Malachor 5 from being destroyed by the ball-droid and Mass Shadow Generator. HK-47 finds out and goes to finish off G0-T0. If the Exile chooses the dark side option, G0-T0 DEFEATS HK-47.

If he can defeat the assassin droid HK-47, he's more than a match for Zann.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HK-51
Scroll down to Cut Content section for info.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
01.01.2013 , 09:01 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
G0-T0 can hack droids. Being a super-smart droid, he can hack droids. Just look at how he and the Visionary control all those droids. Also, in KOTOR II, he has an ability called Corrupt Droid. It makes a droid turn on its owners and fight for G0-T0 and the Exile. Even if you make the argument that he can only Corrupt droids in person, it still allows him to corrupt the Zann Information Droid and Droideka factories, all without being seen.

HK are assassins, not soldiers. But what "battleground" are you talking about? Nar Shaddaa is hardly a place for open warfare. Also, don't forget that G0-T0 has the Exchange Thugs and Jekk'Jekk Tar people to help fight too.

Zann knowing G0-T0 is a droid doesn't change anything. He will still not be able to find him. Actually, if Zann assumes that G0-T0 can hack his droids, it might work against him as he would stop using Droidekas altogether (if he was smart).
Ah, I never used GO-TO in game so yeah xD
And yes, HK-50s are assassins, as I previously stated, and I mean the type of place where there will be a battle. you know, with large forces fighting one another( okay, you're making me think hard now, GO-TO wouldn't engage in that type of fight unless it was directly on his Yacht...)
It would be in GO-TOs interests to take other planets too don't ya think (now that I think, it reminds me of the whole Revan-Traya fight...), but he just might stay on Nar Shaddaa.
Well, GO-TO would need to get to a secret, likley guarded, droid factory. (Now that I think, is it even guarded?), but yeah, Zann would probably have droideka's decomissioned if he learned he could do that....
You do have another good point, most of his models are stolen, but didn't he steal the plans too?

So assuming everything does happen on Nar Shaddaa, he would lose a lot of military power being unable to use vehicles. (the space is too small for them to really move in places where they could be landed in)
it looks more like a tie to me now...

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.01.2013 , 09:30 PM | #19
As with Zann's last Kaggath, he got the short end of the stick in regards to G0-T0 not being involved in open warfare.

This Kaggath would be fought on Nar Shaddaa in the underworld, trying to gain support and influence, impressing mercenaries and gangs, and using influence to undermine the opponents activities. A battle in the shadows.

It is important to point out that Zann is not used to this. He fought the Empire and Republic in epic, full-scale battles. He's inexpirienced at fighting other criminals. G0-T0 and the Exchange, on the other hand, are operating on Nar Shaddaa, the Hutt Cartel's doorstep. Being able to run a large and profitable operation right under the hutt's noses is a testiment to G0-T0's cunning and the Exchange's ability to avoid and eliminate underworld rivals. He would have no problem combatting the Consortium.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.01.2013 , 09:45 PM | #20
To tell the truth, I think G0-T0 would win this one. Tyber Zann may have the military power, but G0-T0 has the underworld resources to gain the upper hand. Not to mention that an underworld battle is his personal playground. Tyber Zann was more focused on a military battle. Not his fault of course. He never really had to deal with someone like G0-T0. He was always fighting the Empire or Rebellion. Groups that had real military power. G0-T0 doesn't have a military, but that is his strength. He isn't bogged down by the practices of war. I have no doubt that Tyber could pull his own weight in an underworld battle, but he has the short end of the stick here.

But let's face it. No matter who wins, they won't be able to defeat the guy I have slotted to win this thing.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku