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Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.02.2013 , 10:45 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
am ejoying a lot this debate debate just wana point out something that i know many of u know, but seems to be forgeting or missing in ur coments:

There was peace once betwen the dark side and the light side, and both lived in harmony for many tousands of years:

Quote from from:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Order

History of the Jedi Order
Tython and Force Wars

"the Je'daii Order, a group of Force-sensitives determined to keep an internal balance between the light side, or Ashla and the dark side, called Bogan"

"For millennia the Je'daii Order flourished on Tython"

"Ultimately around 25,783 BBY, several hundred years before the founding of the Galactic Republic, a splinter group formed within the Order; These Je'daii were enamored by the light side of the Force, or Ashla, and professed that it was stronger than the Bogan and the more virtuous path to walk. Abandoning the Je'daii teachings of balance; Believing that they were given command over the Force in order to assist those in need, the Jedi wished to defeat those who used the dark side and vanquish all evil doers; During the Jedi's earliest days one of its founders, Master Rajivari, broke away and encouraged his followers to abandon the light and look to Bogan for guidance and power. Calling themselves the True Dark Sons of Tython, Rajivari's followers were attacked by the Jedi Order in a clash known as the Force Wars."



The ultimatelly fault of the current conflict was because those who followed the light side, believed themself superior to those who didn't.... until the jedi acept that there has never been the need of destroying the dark side, in stead co-exist with it, nothing is gona change ever.... the light side condemed the dark side of being evil thing that is nor nesesary true.... all conflicts originated because of that believe.... personally i believe that the conflict has evolved so much, and each side has grew further and further away from the idea of balance, that is already too late for any hope of balance in the future, unless both orders be completly eradicated, any knoloadge of the force dismissed, and a new order is created from scratch following the path of the original Je'daii Order....
Really? Well there we go then. That proves my point. It is possible for the Jedi to reconcile themselves with the Sith. The Je'daii Order lived in perfect balance between light and dark. This is what the Jedi Order should strive to become, and achieve true harmony and balance. Like Kreia said:

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea."

If the Jedi simply accepted that they were as flawed as their dark side opponents, and realised that the dark and the light must always coexist, they could put a stop to all the unnecessary war and death and bring true peace. Long live the Je'daii Order!

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
01.02.2013 , 11:16 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Really? Well there we go then. That proves my point. It is possible for the Jedi to reconcile themselves with the Sith. The Je'daii Order lived in perfect balance between light and dark. This is what the Jedi Order should strive to become, and achieve true harmony and balance. Like Kreia said:

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea."

If the Jedi simply accepted that they were as flawed as their dark side opponents, and realised that the dark and the light must always coexist, they could put a stop to all the unnecessary war and death and bring true peace. Long live the Je'daii Order!
yes i agree with u in what u say, my previous comment rather than conflicting with urs, suports it... the same goes to Inzuher,it seems that the two of u, belong (in different degree) to the few who understand that Jedi is not = good; and sith is not = evil.....


Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post


the definitions of "Good and Evil" is an inaccurate definitions that has no hold in reality, and those has no real value in a discussion. We cannot simply deal people up in good or evil, it is too narrow sighted.


exactly what i think...
"Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.02.2013 , 11:21 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
yes i agree with u in what u say, my previous comment rather than conflicting with urs, suports it... the same goes to Inzuher,it seems that the two of u, belong in some degree to the few who understand that Jedi is not = good; and sith is not = evil.....
]Not quite, I do believe the Sith are evil, however I don't believe the dark side is inherently evil and should be destroyed. The Je'daii order proves there are other ways to achieve balance.

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
01.02.2013 , 11:24 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
]Not quite, I do believe the Sith are evil, however I don't believe the dark side is inherently evil and should be destroyed. The Je'daii order proves there are other ways to achieve balance.
thats why i said: u and Inzuher (in different degree)

wile u still believe the sith teachings/culture to be evil, u do agree that the dark side is not evil by a must!
"Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.02.2013 , 11:26 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
wile u still believe the sith teachings/culture to be evil, u do agree that the dark side is not evil by a must!
Exactly, the Je'daii embraced Ashla and Bogan, and should do so again.

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
01.02.2013 , 11:37 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Exactly, the Je'daii embraced and Bogan, and should do so again.
yes i agree in that there should be balance once more, but i also disagree in how this would be possible...

in what we don' agree:

while u believe that both orders can make peace over a period of time, and embrace balance once more; from my point of view, the problem is that both sides(the Ashla followers, now know as Jedi, and the Bogan followers, now known as Sith) have over the curse of all this milleniums, evolved so much and grew so much apart from eachother, that i don't believe that such balance can be restored, unless both Orders, and all its current Followers cease to exist, every evidence of their very own existence and the existence of the force is wiped out, and removed from the memories of all beings, and ultimatelly after many years, the force be re-discovered by new force users.... so that what once was the Je'daii teachings of balance can be archived.... in other words, sometimes, to build something u have to destroy soemthing else completly, and then from the ashes, build up somethign new .....
"Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.02.2013 , 11:44 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
yes i agree in that there should be balance once more, but i also disagree in how this would be possible...

in what we don' agree:

from my point of view, the problem is that the Ashla followers, now know as Jedi, and the Bogan followers, now known as Sith, have over the curse of all this milleniums, evolved so much and grew so much apart from eachother, that i don't believe that such balance can be restored, unless both Orders, and all its current Followers cease to exist, every evidence of their very own existence and the existence of the force is wiped out, and removed from the memories of all beings, and ultimatelly after many years, the force be re-discovered by new force users.... so that what once was the Je'daii teachings of balance can be archived.... in other ways,somethimes, to build something u have to destroy soemthing else completly, and then from the ashes, build up somethign new .....
I believe it is possible. But I agree the gap has widened greatly. This is why however I always refer to the Jedi evolving rather than the Sith. The Sith have gone to far down the path of Bogan to change, and in many ways the only way to defeat them is by Force. But this is a short term solution. In times of peace the Jedi have the opportunity to evolve their teachings and become like the Je'daii Order again, which I believe they can. But it would have to be a slow process, the Jedi Order have existed for millenia and change will be difficult. But through the combined effort of wise Masters down the ages, it could be achieved. In many ways, Luke Skywalker had the perfect opportunity to do this. The Jedi and the Sith had been utterly destroyed, but he failed and the perpetual cycle of destruction continued *sigh*.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.02.2013 , 03:55 PM | #78
@Yellow: Could you please try to write with correct spelling and grammar. English isn't my first language and for me it is very difficult to read your texts.

Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
to be more specific; from circa 36,453 BBY to 25,783 BBY, thats over 10k years of peace and balance... only to end in conflict because of the ideas of the light side followers....
Have you played the Consular story in the game? What the article says about Rajivari is wrong in some accounts:

1. The Order broke because they couldn't decide the purpose of the Jedi. The light side followers wanted to the Jedi as guardians of peace and justice who help others throughout the galaxy. Rajivari wanted, if I understand correctly, to conquer and rule other worlds.

2. The game is pretty clear that Rajivari and his followers were the ones who attacked the other Jedi. The wanted to "cleanse" the Jedi Order and reshape it into how they wanted it to be.


The Balance on Tython was only possible because the Je'daii were scientists and secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy. As soon as they had to decide what to do with the rest of the galaxy, they couldn't keep balance. The light side urged them to serve others, the dark side urged them to enslave others.

Quote:
1: the sith did not killied inocent poeple to use their bodies, at least the first so called Zombies werent conceived that way....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korriban_zombie

"Originally created prior to 7,000 BBY by Sith King Dathka Graush's experiments using Sith alchemy and magic to reanimate corpses..."

2: The dark Jedi did left the order and formed one of their own after they were exiled.... however u might be right to some point, in this war, contrary to on the previous one, it was not 100% confirmed who began the armed conflicts....
1. Point taken. (Well, the part you quote is about Dark Side Zombies on Korriban. It is not sure how the Dark Jedi created their Zombies.)

2. The dark Jedi were exiled two times. The first time they started raising an army to fight against the Jedi. Only after they were defeated and sent into deep space they accepted their exile. (And they still taught the following generations to destroy the Jedi if they got the opportunity.)

It is not confirmed who started violence, but it is confirmed that the Jedi gave the Dark Jedi a chance to stop and most likely also a chance to leave peacefully.

@Beniboybling:

Quote:
But it would have to be a slow process, the Jedi Order have existed for millenia and change will be difficult.
But even in the changed Jedi Order there will always be renegade Jedi who try to use the Force to gain power over others and enrich themselves. And also those who are turned mad by the Dark Side. The Je'daii Order hat to exile lots and lots of people who fell to the dark and force them to meditate until they are balanced enough to return.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.02.2013 , 08:57 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Not quite, I do believe the Sith are evil, however I don't believe the dark side is inherently evil and should be destroyed. The Je'daii order proves there are other ways to achieve balance.
The darkside may or may not be evil, there is no denying there is a bad reaction that lifeforms have around areas were the darkside is strong.

If we assume it is not inherently evil though, it could be that sentients simply cannot handle it without becoming corrupted and slipping towards evil.

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
01.03.2013 , 11:03 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
@Yellow: Could you please try to write with correct spelling and grammar. English isn't my first language and for me it is very difficult to read your texts.
am sorry if that is the case... however, so far ur the only one complaining about my grammar... i know i write with lots of mistakes... but am already trying to do my best and from my point of view, what i say is more than understandable.....

Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post

Have you played the Consular story in the game? What the article says about Rajivari is wrong in some accounts:

1. The Order broke because they couldn't decide the purpose of the Jedi. The light side followers wanted to the Jedi as guardians of peace and justice who help others throughout the galaxy. Rajivari wanted, if I understand correctly, to conquer and rule other worlds.

2. The game is pretty clear that Rajivari and his followers were the ones who attacked the other Jedi. The wanted to "cleanse" the Jedi Order and reshape it into how they wanted it to be.
1- no i have never finished Thyton with a consular, since in my Op they have one of the most boring stories...

2- u seriolsy can't be telling me that u take what the game says over what wookkipedia says? are u? the ingame lore is full of mistakes, as many have pointed out several times.... so really, what else do i need to say in this regard?

Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post

The Balance on Tython was only possible because the Je'daii were scientists and secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy. As soon as they had to decide what to do with the rest of the galaxy, they couldn't keep balance. The light side urged them to serve others, the dark side urged them to enslave others.
balance was more than possible, for over 10k years.... on those 10k years, neither the light sided guys became obsessed with being priests and monks, neither the dark sided guys became serial murders....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Order
Tython and Force Wars

however at one point during 25,783 BBY a splinter group formed within the Order; These Je'daii were enamored by the light side of the Force, or Ashla, and professed that it was stronger than the Bogan.... thats how it all began..... not becouse anybody was slaving anybody or killing anybody, or practicing necromancy, or anything....

Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
1. Point taken. (Well, the part you quote is about Dark Side Zombies on Korriban. It is not sure how the Dark Jedi created their Zombies.)
ehem.....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korriban_zombie
Originally created by Sith King Dathka Graush's experiments using Sith alchemy and magic to reanimate corpses

Korriban zombies where the first zombies... about how the were created i thing that was quite clear; i believe reanimate corpses = bring back to life, already dead things..... no?

Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
2. The dark Jedi were exiled two times. The first time they started raising an army to fight against the Jedi. Only after they were defeated and sent into deep space they accepted their exile. (And they still taught the following generations to destroy the Jedi if they got the opportunity.)


It is not confirmed who started violence, but it is confirmed that the Jedi gave the Dark Jedi a chance to stop and most likely also a chance to leave peacefully....
have u readed the links? they left peacefully and founded their own academy.... on both wars..... it is not that the jedi gave them a chance, such chance was not even nessesary, they decided to leave and so they did....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism:
Xendor and Lyn departed Ossus to establish their new academy on Lettow.
[COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]The Legions of Lettow initially wished to be left alone by the Jedi[/COLOR]

seriolsy no offense, but this is starting to get a bit repetitive.....


-------------------------------------------

a resumen of all valuable links in this debate:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Wars

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Order

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je%27daii_Order
"Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"
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