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Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.01.2013 , 03:13 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
Power corrupts? Oh please such a cliche. There is abesolutely no nature bound role that says that power have to corrupt. Will you force instance say that there have been no good kings or rulers in world history? I think the main problem is that you and people like you are trapped in the moderen societies' way og thinking. "Abesolute power is bad it corrupts! We need a system where some wealthy people can effort to have themselves shown in the media to get votes, and then sit and argue alll day, and still not managing to take the hard decsions because they need votes from the ignorante masses!"

Yeah that all sounds nice... Why do you think the world is in such chaos today with so many people straving to death every day? How nice it is that the jedi see fit to call themselves "guardians". However, I see that a display of fear. Fear to take true respondsabillity themselves. Fear to grap the power and use it for the greater good. If they have some inside, which the jedi striffe to get "There is no Ignorance there is peace," then it is hypocritical not to use this knowledge.

EDIT: Nothing of the above is ment to be offending to anyone.
Why should the Jedi rule? They are guardians of peace, not rulers. And frankly, they would not be very good rulers. I think the Dark Age shows that, yes?
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Inzuher's Avatar


Inzuher
01.01.2013 , 03:25 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Why should the Jedi rule? They are guardians of peace, not rulers. And frankly, they would not be very good rulers. I think the Dark Age shows that, yes?
Are you reffering to the New Sith Wars? "The Repulic Dark Age?" In that case no ofc it didn't, no one can rule in propperly in a system where all is equal. Besides you didn't answer my argument.

Another thing. If we're gona take a serious discussion about sith ways vs. jedi ways I would suggest we stop focusing so much on star wars history and more on the thoughts behind the two phillopsophies themselves. The reason for this is, that while I hate admiting it, there is a clear tendency in star wars litteratur to take sides with the jedi. This being very clear since the sith always seem to lose in the end. Take Darth Caedus for instance. He had a purpose, he had a vision and had the best interrest of the galaxy in interrest, in my opinion more than any other sith. However, he was killed off before he could forfill his dream. The same go for most dark side users in star wars. Therefore, if you use star wars historical arguments the jedi will almost always come out on the winning side. However, if you try comparring the phillopshey seperate, the resulte might very well turn out very differently.

If you're gona replay on my post again please take the time to answer my arugments instead of just answering in onelines like: "Power corurpt" it kind of make me feel that I waste my breath (although I'm writing lol)
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konstadinosblue's Avatar


konstadinosblue
01.01.2013 , 03:30 PM | #63
OMG I think this is the dawn of a my new philosophy....the ashes of the old year gave me knowledge
so I can adopt it......
I therefor name it....................


THEORY OF ETERNAL CONFLICT

(see reply 47# and 51#)
Ahsoka: "Well, you want the bad news, or the really bad news?"
Obi-Wan: "Well, let's try the bad news laced with a little optimism."
―Ahsoka Tano and Obi-Wan Kenobi, attempting to flee from Mortis

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.01.2013 , 03:33 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
Are you reffering to the New Sith Wars? "The Repulic Dark Age?" In that case no ofc it didn't, no one can rule in propperly in a system where all is equal. Besides you didn't answer my argument.

Another thing. If we're gona take a serious discussion about sith ways vs. jedi ways I would suggest we stop focusing so much on star wars history and more on the thoughts behind the two phillopsophies themselves. The reason for this is, that while I hate admiting it, there is a clear tendency in star wars litteratur to take sides with the jedi. This being very clear since the sith always seem to lose in the end. Take Darth Caedus for instance. He had a purpose, he had a vision and had the best interrest of the galaxy in interrest, in my opinion more than any other sith. However, he was killed off before he could forfill his dream. The same go for most dark side users in star wars. Therefore, if you use star wars historical arguments the jedi will almost always come out on the winning side. However, if you try comparring the phillopshey seperate, the resulte might very well turn out very differently.

If you're gona replay on my post again please take the time to answer my arugments instead of just answering in onelines like: "Power corurpt" it kind of make me feel that I waste my breath (although I'm writing lol)
Sith ways vs. Jedi ways is subjective because everyone views them differently. And this thread shows that people view the Jedi vs. Sith battles differently.

Personally, I take the Jedi over the Sith. Just as I take Light over Dark, Good over Evil. While I may not agree with everything the Jedi do, I would rather side with them over the Sith.

Like I said though, this topic is subjective as everyone views each side differently.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Inzuher's Avatar


Inzuher
01.01.2013 , 03:50 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Sith ways vs. Jedi ways is subjective because everyone views them differently. And this thread shows that people view the Jedi vs. Sith battles differently.

Personally, I take the Jedi over the Sith. Just as I take Light over Dark, Good over Evil. While I may not agree with everything the Jedi do, I would rather side with them over the Sith.

Like I said though, this topic is subjective as everyone views each side differently.
You would take the jedi over the sith as you would take good over evil? Well what a nice plain and simple way to put it. Good and evil.... Two absolutes.

Well it is just not that simple is it? There is no "good" and there is no "evil". If a jedi should be the embodiment of good then how can they kill people? Oh wait, they do it for the greater good? Oh then how does that make them different from the sith who kill thousands to put order to the galaxy? Said in another way, they both commit an "evil" act with a good intention but how do that make them good because of their intentions or evil because of their actions? To complicate things further: Later it might be discovered that the jedi didn't have to kill that person, just as the sith might succeed or fail to bring order to the galaxy. So what do we judge them on? Intentions, actions or result? Furthermore, can we judge their view of life and their respective orders on their actions? Can we split them up so one is good and one is evil?

NO!

Why? Because the definitions of "Good and Evil" is an inaccurate definitions that has no hold in reality, and those has no real value in a discussion. We cannot simply deal people up in good or evil, it is too narrow sighted.

As you said, it is subjective.

This is my subjective opinion of the subject:

The sith might do some bad things in order to gain power, and some of them might be outright selfish. However, some of them who have the good of the galaxy in mind might really have achived something, if they hadn't meet so much resistance from selfrighouts monks.

"Apathy is death" - Kreia (and so many others.)

Apathy is what the jedi display. I mean look at them. They are in contact with the force which give them inside and even visions of the future! Yet they refuge to take at least partly control! I mean look at them they see fit to be "guardians" of a republic, which is run by corrupt and populist politicians. Perhaps if the jedi hadn't been so foolish they could've prevented the Republic from falling! The Role of Two sith worked for centuries to take down the Republic, feeding the seeds of corrupting that was already there do to the nature of the weekly build institution. They are afraid to take responsibility.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.01.2013 , 04:04 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
You would take the jedi over the sith as you would take good over evil? Well what a nice plain and simple way to put it. Good and evil.... Two absolutes.

Well it is just not that simple is it? There is no "good" and there is no "evil". If a jedi should be the embodiment of good then how can they kill people? Oh wait, they do it for the greater good? Oh then how does that make them different from the sith who kill thousands to put order to the galaxy? Said in another way, they both commit an "evil" act with a good intention but how do that make them good because of their intentions or evil because of their actions? To complicate things further: Later it might be discovered that the jedi didn't have to kill that person, just as the sith might succeed or fail to bring order to the galaxy. So what do we judge them on? Intentions, actions or result? Furthermore, can we judge their view of life and their respective orders on their actions? Can we split them up so one is good and one is evil?

NO!

Why? Because the definitions of "Good and Evil" is an inaccurate definitions that has no hold in reality, and those has no real value in a discussion. We cannot simply deal people up in good or evil, it is too narrow sighted.

As you said, it is subjective.
I'm not going to get into this whole 'morals' argument that's erupting, but let's just agree that this whole thing is subjective and leave it there.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Inzuher's Avatar


Inzuher
01.01.2013 , 04:14 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm not going to get into this whole 'morals' argument that's erupting, but let's just agree that this whole thing is subjective and leave it there.
Ofc it is subjective, few things is not. However, I just edited my last comment and a added a lot more about the "subjective" stuff.
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Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.01.2013 , 04:26 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
its not what i belive or not, it could have stayed that way, it might have not, we will never come to know what could have hapened, since a war started....

about the second part, The Dark Jedi left the order and retreated to other worlds, they created such army, including the so called "zombies" after the war had begung, and only becouse they were outnumbered by the jedi(who were aided by the republic) even if i am wrong adn the sith did created the army first(thing that is not stated anywhere) it dosent says anywhere neither that they stroke first, does it? The jedis have the Republic backing them up, hell if i was outnumbered 1million to 1 i would also rise zombies and s.hi.t
But it stands like this:

The Jedi told the Dark Jedi to stop.
When the Dark Jedi didn't want to stop, the Jedi wanted to exile them.

It does not say who started the violence.
The Jedi wouldn't accept dark side experiments in their order (for good reasons). But the Dark Jedi didn't want to accept that. (Unlike in the First Great Schism, they had the option to leave the Order and practice their teachings on their own.)


Oh, by the way, if I was outnumbered 1 million to 1 I wouldn't kill innocents to use their bodies as weapons. Especially if my enemy does not intend to kill me if I surrender.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.01.2013 , 05:12 PM | #69
The Jedi were able to accept alternative groups that used the Force, the Sith were not.

While the Jedi tried to get some of those groups to join them, unless said groups were doing something like getting prepared to conquer places, they were typically left alone. One group was a split from the Jedi Order (one that happened as the result of an accident), that group didn't trust the Jedi Order, whom they felt abandoned them, but they didn't go to the darkside, while the Jedi tried to get them to rejoin the order (which failed), they never attempted to force them back to the order, nor did they attempt to wipe out the group.

The Jedi acknowledged that the distrust was understandable, and hoped to earn this group's trust back.

The Sith was either you join the Sith or you die.

Overall, I don't see the lightsiders starting this conflict unless they had a very good reason.

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
01.02.2013 , 10:26 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
The Jedi were able to accept alternative groups that used the Force, the Sith were not.

while the Jedi tried to get them to rejoin the order (which failed), they never attempted to force them back to the order, nor did they attempt to wipe out the group.

The Jedi acknowledged that the distrust was understandable, and hoped to earn this group's trust back.

The Sith was either you join the Sith or you die.

Overall, I don't see the lightsiders starting this conflict unless they had a very good reason.

ur wrong in almost everything u said, and i will show u why below...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

am ejoying a lot this debate debate just wana point out something that i know many; but not all of u know, and it seems ur forgeting it or simply missing it in ur coments:

There was peace once betwen the dark side and the light side, and both lived in harmony for many tousands of years:

to be more specific; from circa 36,453 BBY to 25,783 BBY, thats over 10k years of peace and balance... only to end in conflict because of the ideas of the light side followers....

Quote from from:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Order

History of the Jedi Order
Tython and Force Wars

"the Je'daii Order, a group of Force-sensitives determined to keep an internal balance between the light side, or Ashla and the dark side, called Bogan"

"For millennia the Je'daii Order flourished on Tython"

"Ultimately around 25,783 BBY, several hundred years before the founding of the Galactic Republic, a splinter group formed within the Order; These Je'daii were enamored by the light side of the Force, or Ashla, and professed that it was stronger than the Bogan and the more virtuous path to walk. Abandoning the Je'daii teachings of balance; Believing that they were given command over the Force in order to assist those in need, the Jedi wished to defeat those who used the dark side and vanquish all evil doers; During the Jedi's earliest days one of its founders, Master Rajivari, broke away and encouraged his followers to abandon the light and look to Bogan for guidance and power. Calling themselves the True Dark Sons of Tython, Rajivari's followers were attacked by the Jedi Order in a clash known as the Force Wars."



The ultimatelly fault of the current conflict was because those who followed the light side, believed themself superior to those who didn't.... until the jedi acept that there has never been the need of destroying the dark side, in stead co-exist with it, nothing is gona change ever.... the light side condemed the dark side of being evil thing that is nor nesesary true.... all conflicts originated because of that believe.... personally i believe that the conflict has evolved so much, and each side has grew further and further away from the idea of balance, that is already too late for any hope of balance in the future, unless both orders be completly eradicated, any knoloadge of the force dismissed, and a new order is created from scratch following the path of the original Je'daii Order....


Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
But it stands like this:

The Jedi told the Dark Jedi to stop.
When the Dark Jedi didn't want to stop, the Jedi wanted to exile them.

It does not say who started the violence.
The Jedi wouldn't accept dark side experiments in their order (for good reasons). But the Dark Jedi didn't want to accept that. (Unlike in the First Great Schism, they had the option to leave the Order and practice their teachings on their own.)


Oh, by the way, if I was outnumbered 1 million to 1 I wouldn't kill innocents to use their bodies as weapons. Especially if my enemy does not intend to kill me if I surrender.
1: the sith did not killied inocent poeple to use their bodies, at least the first so called Zombies werent conceived that way....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korriban_zombie

"Originally created prior to 7,000 BBY by Sith King Dathka Graush's experiments using Sith alchemy and magic to reanimate corpses..."

2: The dark Jedi did left the order and formed one of their own after they were exiled.... however u might be right to some point, in this war, contrary to on the previous one, it was not 100% confirmed who began the armed conflicts....
"Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"
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