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Bring Back my Electro Dart


Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
01.10.2013 , 01:28 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?
Well don't worry bub, under the current circumstances, a merc dps can't even get a Operative healer to use his Combat Stealth, much less actually conceive of killing him. And so I turn your statement on its head - if a merc dps is so useless that an enemy operative healer can simply ignore him and continue healing his teammates until the healers health hits 30%, then stun the merc dps, and then rinse and repeat, what's the point of playing a merc dps?

Theoretically in 1v1, the healer should win vs. a dps, it should just take forever and a day. But in the current state of affairs we aren't even close to that. An operative healer attacked by a merc dps can continue to output heals to his teammates at 30-50% effectiveness while absorbing the entirety of the mercs damage output. The merc dps is functionally equivalent to about half a player.

Okamakiri's Avatar


Okamakiri
01.10.2013 , 01:59 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
The merc dps is functionally equivalent to about half a player.
If unhindered by anyone else your DPS output is half of others, you are simply BAD. Mercs are in the top half of the DPS spectrum. However, if you're talking about inability to put out consistent DPS in the chaos of battle with interrupts, knockbacks, stuns, then you're no longer talking about DPS ability, but the actual real problem behind the Merc class, which is how easily shut down they are.
Blackburn - Assassin, Dovahkėėn - Marauder, Zarakė - Jugernaut, Hamza - Mercenary, Smith - Sniper

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.11.2013 , 04:38 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?
The point of being a healer is to regen players who take the hits for you, the ideal partner being a tank.

No healer should be able to prevent a dps from killing them 1 v 1. Whats the point of being a dps again?
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
01.11.2013 , 05:10 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
No healer should be able to prevent a dps from killing them 1 v 1. Whats the point of being a dps again?
that was probably a 67 letter type-o. ill assume you will retract that statement
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.11.2013 , 06:34 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
that was probably a 67 letter type-o. ill assume you will retract that statement
Very presumptuous of you and no.
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE

Choffware's Avatar


Choffware
01.11.2013 , 12:45 PM | #26
Every class should be able to take on every other class 1v1 with given circumstances and skill level. Healers should not be un-killable 1v1... but every class including healers should have a strong niche that makes them very hard to beat, but other circumstances where they are easy to kill. For instance if an operative or assassin gets an opener on you with no one else to help they should be very difficult to counter, but easy to kill if you see them first. Ranged dps should be very difficult counter if the fight starts at range but easy to kill if the fight starts at melee range. There is no reason for an Arsenal and pyro merc to both be viable in pvp if the devs take the time to balance them they should be slightly different flavors of the same thing. Just like the Marauder's trees are... (all three specs seem solid with slight changes in play style). Merc dps is ranged dps that has only one spell to that widens the gap... therefor negating any advantage that range is suposed to give you. To basically say "there is no problem... just wait until the other class gets into melee range... you know the range that gives them a giant edge over your class and then hope your cc works and then try to run back out of range" is STUPID
Mantorin 55 Marauder || Choff lvl 55 Merc || Chof lvl 51 Sorc

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
01.11.2013 , 01:43 PM | #27
If a DPS can kill a healer in 1 on 1, wouldn't it be better for the healer to just be a DPS? When is the healer ever going to be able to heal anyone else if it just takes 1 enemy DPS to neutralize the healer?

The reason why a healer can't die 1v1 to a DPS is because if that were true, in 2v2, the healer would die even faster.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.13.2013 , 07:12 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
If a DPS can kill a healer in 1 on 1, wouldn't it be better for the healer to just be a DPS? When is the healer ever going to be able to heal anyone else if it just takes 1 enemy DPS to neutralize the healer?

The reason why a healer can't die 1v1 to a DPS is because if that were true, in 2v2, the healer would die even faster.
It does only take one DPS to neutralise a healer.

Healers are worthless solo, they are there to unbalance fights, recover friendlies health during combat and it is the job of other players to guard, peel, taunt and otherwise take the hits for the healer who then keeps them up.

And the reason if you don't know it for healers to be there instead of DPS is that a mixture of TANKS, dps and healers i better than dps with a one way ticket into battle and lousy damage sponging abilities.

The logic for it in PVP is the same as for PVE.
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
01.13.2013 , 04:59 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Okamakiri View Post
If unhindered by anyone else your DPS output is half of others, you are simply BAD.
Re-read my post. In the current state of the game, a top Merc dps, even if unhindered, can not kill a top Operative healer. He can't even come close. A top Operative healer will actually ALLOW the Merc dps to get him down to 30% health, using his time to heal his teammates instead. And then once he is near 30% and the Merc moves in to use a stun, the Operative will use his 2 stuns + 1 stun breaker to overcome the Merc's 1 stun + 1 stun breaker to leave the Merc stunned while the Operative scoots away. There is no need for the Operative to stealth out. The Operative then heals up and repeats the sequence - with the added benefit that the second time around the Operative will have an even bigger stun capability advantage because of his smaller CDs. At the top skill levels, Merc dps = 1/2 of an Operative healer.

Quote: Originally Posted by Okamakiri View Post
Mercs are in the top half of the DPS spectrum.
Wrong. Unless you use Bioware-style metric measurement. Certainly it is true that if you took all the wzs played, Merc dps would score very highly in damage outputted. But those meta averages are skewed by the hordes of low skill, low gear, low performing Smash Monkeys, Bubble Stun Sorcs, Assassins and other FotM classes which attract low skill players like Dallas attracts plastic surgeons. In contrast, the only Merc dps left playing are the most committed, geared and successful ones since they are the only ones that remain halfway viable.

But once you control for player skill biases, the truth comes out. Amongst top players in low death frequency warzones, damage output by Rage/Focus toons is about 1.2 million, or about 50% greater than for Merc dps. A notable Sorc dps score is about a million or 25% greater than Merc dps. Merc dps is tied for the bottom with snipers and operative dps. Except that the Merc dps brings considerable less utility to the team and has lower survivability. In fact, Merc dps has the lowest utility of ANY dps class, and the lowest survivability of ANY dps class on top of being tied for having the lowest damage output. By any measure, Merc dps holds the Pareto suboptimal title of WORST CLASS IN THE GAME.

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
01.14.2013 , 06:51 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
It does only take one DPS to neutralise a healer.
Thats my whole point. 1 DPS should neutralize, not kill, a healer.

If a healer cant even heal themself through 1 person's damage....I mean lets just think about that for a minute... That means they also cannot heal a DIFFERENT person through 1 enemy's damage.

Some people are saying that in a 2 on 1, a healer should not be able to keep their ally alive against 1 opponent?
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS