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One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.27.2012 , 02:31 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
not necessarily

Last week we pugged a 2nd healer for EV HM and got this sage
At the Big B I kept telling her to drop Sacrafice when we switched islands and she would single taget heal
After fight (we won anyways as EV HM not that hard really) we found out shes a hybred that went half way up heal tree only.

People can que intentionally as healer but not have the proper heals available.

Its like those morons that que as tank and then insist they are better tanks by being in DPS stances (Im not joking...seen it multiple times in PUGs)
Oh, I agree...I've seen it happen. But the person I was replying to was asking if it was just an accident due to a GF bug. Obviously if the person intentionally queued in an inappropriate spec then they won't say anything. It's too bad you can't inspect talent trees in Swtor, unless I've missed it all this time.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

GalacticKegger's Avatar


GalacticKegger
12.27.2012 , 02:39 PM | #42
I think a big reason so few tank effectively in this game is because it's old school raw. There isn't a bar full of "oh sh**!" buttons, and facerolling the keyboard does nothing. Have to actually focus and apply the lost art of technique: keeping your head on a constant swivel, using the terrain to your advantage, moving multiple mobs around while holding a boss' attention (love tanking the HK-47 fight in Foundry), positioning and repositioning mobs to help set up special or AoE attacks, as well as keeping the taunt, aggro bomb and boss interrupt in reserve to name a few.

I like it. But I can also see how it might be difficult for someone unfamiliar with raw tanking to pick it up after only doing it a few times. If they're already in end game then there's no excuse for poor technique. Aside from a host of standard tank & spanks, there's a lot of alert feel required to tank in this game.
"I bled protecting The People's right to free speech; thus I reserve the right to make them bleed for abusing it."
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ~ Edmund Burke‎
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Vinjar's Avatar


Vinjar
12.27.2012 , 02:39 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Krsnik View Post
I don't wanna sound like an ******e here, (ok, maybe a bit), but I agree with the OP. And tbh, I've realized one thing. This started AFTER the game went free to play. Many people that don't understand the roles and/or mechanics are now in, because they don't have to pay monthly. And as much as they don't have access to content as much as we do, they still come in, and I seem to find those people most of the time when I'm in LFG. However, I have to point something out: the biggest mistake of most groups imo - trying to skip as much as a FP as possible. This leads to many complications. I've done my fair share of tanking in MMOs tho, and we do get trashed a lot :/

To end: just because I like how it looks :P
Negative. There have always been bad players be they DPS, Healers, or Tanks. This has been consistent in any MMO. As a tank I have the most ability to control a situation provided the healer keeps me up. I will ALWAYS keep aggro or pull aggro if they somehow pull it. I can always make up for bad DPS.

Dampylle's Avatar


Dampylle
12.27.2012 , 02:42 PM | #44
Sadly I must admit I have to agree with you OP

My main is an Immortal Jugg. I did this because in my last MMO I tanked damn near anything and was told I did it well. I found it was something I just appeared to be naturally good at. I also used to run end game guilds and so my natural inclination is to explain and teach where I see a need for it.

Normally this means I dive right in as the tank and happily help new people learn the run be it a PUG for a HM or for a Heroic. On top of this I also seldom have any real down time because my significant other chooses to play a Bodyguard Merc and so I basically have my own full time Medic... instant groups, quick pick ups for heroics... zero reason to be stressed or frustrated as things get rolling.

It is surprising how quickly that can change.

So me and my pocket medic end up in a PUG for HM FE. No big deal, been there done thought bought the t-shirt (I am at that point wearing Columi War Leader Body and sporting the Throne Breaker title)

We then proceed to realize that our Sith Warrior DPS... is ignoring every bit of strategy on basically every boss.

Group wants me to pull Tregg off the bridge so I can tank against the wall and they have room to move when he jumps.... Warrior attacks Tregg Mid pull and ends up sandwiched between Tregg and the adds on the bridge he should have been burning down.

He blames me for "losing Tregg", and the Medic for "letting him die"

We say DPS on Turret so the medic can move around between them and me as I tank Jindo.... he chases Jindo like a chicken with his head cut off and eats AoE damage while out of range of the Medic as I am dodging said AoE.

He blames me again saying I "lost hate" when I was force charging out of the AoE he was running into... because it was on me.... and again blames the medic for "not healing him" even though he was out of range.

We explain to stay off the glowing blue war droid on A-14 and B-16... he does not bother to watch for which one is shielded.... but I manage to hold hate anyway and the medic keeps him up despite his ignorance.

We get to HK-47, I explain the fight in detail.... and he promptly ignores the turrets and refuses to AoE when I am CCed... instead he tries to run to the other side of the platform. Of course HK eventually gets loose, poison hits, people die, and the inevitable wipe occurs.

So I explain again, in detail... and he again ignores every bit of strategy explained

In whispers the sorcerer says they would have already vote kicked him, I tell the medic.... he is vote kicked

I get whispers demanding to know why he was kicked. I calmly explain that he was not following strategy and it had caused several wipes on HK.... He of course again blames Me (even though since I was CCed I could not exactly AoE in time to catch HK) and everyone else for "missing" even though he never even tried to land Smash or use Perdition.

All this as I am also apologizing to the resulting Sorcerer for the delay.

We get a different Warrior, this one uses Perdition.... HK goes down first try... we proceed to take Malgus no issue.

So yes I am with you OP, and I feel your pain. Even the most patient of Tanks or Medics can only deal with so much before they either have to step away... or boot someone from group.

Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
12.27.2012 , 02:44 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
To be fair, having done a lot of healing over the years, healers take this same kind of abuse. I've healed my butt off trying to keep up stupid dps that stand in stuff and pull off tanks only to be insulted and booted. A guildy of mine who heals our HM EC/TFB Operations got booted out of a Group finder SM Karraga's Palace and called "the worst healer ever" because he couldn't heal stupid.

Tanks probably do have it worse though because the group generally looks to them to know what to do and lead the group around.

Anyway, there are some kinds of people that just want to pick someone to blame for failure - usually the one at fault is the one dishing it out.
I get that. For a couple years through WOW: BC, my main was a priest healer. I was always a great priest healer enough to raid with the top raiding guild on the realm at the time, but you wouldn't believe the s*** that came out in party chat if I made the tiniest mistake with the wrong person in the group. Back in vanilla I was on a Baron run with a rogue who thought he could tank mobs himself and made it a point to rip mobs off the tank or run ahead and pull more. After a while I just let him fend for himself and started only using Renew on him. He didn't get it. We completed the run and the Baron died. The rogue was dead before the boss because he was sponging and I had to keep the tank up instead of him, but we pulled it off. He got p***** in party chat and called me out for not healing him. I fired back that the tank gets priority for healing over you, if you want heals roll a tank and until then, shut it. There was actually more to the rant than that but it was a pretty fantastic serving. Suffice to say, everyone in the group except him LOL'ed and he got REAL quiet after that.

Still, back when I healed in WoW, I took way more s*** than I ever have in an MMO even when I played flawlessly. Including being a very longtime tank, and occassional DPS. It's true, healing tends to be blamed first. We both get abused, and even DPS get abused sometimes too. I have very rarely gotten BS as a tank though. Last night was an exception. But we're all just part of the group. Without any of the 3 roles, it doesn't really work. And that gets lost on a great many people.
Please un-break Slicing lockbox missions.

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
12.27.2012 , 04:06 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by SharpG View Post
Tionese is perfectly fine for Battle of Ilum hardmode, you'd be plain crazy to waste credits augmenting tionese gear. I'm not saying he's a good tank by any means, for all I know he could have been NOT using a shield or tank stance or even been specced into tanking properly, but tionese gear is MORE then sufficient for hardmode flashpoints minus LI HM which is tuned for Columi
If you dont know the fights (which he didnt. Was obvious when he complained about being stunned when the fight mechanic is to stun EVERYONE at that part of phase) and wasnt willing to learn (or run past) then he should at least be geared to make up for his short comings imo.

And yeah, I see no waste in augmenting Tionesse as you can just pull mods and put in columi/rakata/black hole/ campaign mods when you get them

Or you could pay the 30k for the new armor peice as 30k is chump change!

A GOOD PLAYER can do Hard Modes in Tionesse
A POORLY SKILLED PLAYER can not.
Not elitist or rude, just the truth.
When your skill isnt to the point required, you do other things to increase survivability

When I was learning EC, EV, KP (my guild pushed me right into hardmode so I skipped sm completely) I stacked endurance to just under 23k to increase my sages survivability until I could get comfortable with the different ops.
Now my sage runs with 20k health and has willpower stacked over 2k
Because I no longer need the extra health to survive
Heck if I could get hps down to 18.5 k and stack anouther 1.5k between power and willpower I would
But early on I stacked end for extra survivability (and it worked, I multiple times didnt make it to right spot when floor dropped at SOA and multiple times I landed a level down with 1k health (the endurance made the difference). Now I dont miss the floor drops and dont need the extra health.
Augments on Tionesse is NOT a waste if your dieing to fast.

And yeah, he might of been one of those "I tank better in DPS stance".
Wish I could say I havent seen that before from PUGs but id be lieing.
Its become so common its become an ongoing punch line in guild chat.

That and mocking the imp that told one of my guildies doing hm Black Talon
"go dark or I vote kick you"
Appearently he wasnt joking and reinforced it a number of times after that with threats about vote kick for slow space baring and choosing lightside choices.
Housing brought me back
now add Paazaak, KotOR#1 swoop bike racing, and more flashpoints and planets

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
12.27.2012 , 04:38 PM | #47
My advice is don't tank in lfg. Only go with guild members. You shouldn't see people spec incorrectly, especially the healer. Finally, if you can't finish the instance for whatever reason other more experience guild members are happy to help. Until you are over geared I wouldn't bother with lfg. People in lfg only want geared tanks. Based on my WoW experience people only want geared tanks in lfg. People would even leave if the tank is not geared assuming the queues aren't too long like 10 minutes or so.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Less armour = moves faster = more dodging = less getting hit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Oh.. there is plenty of complaining in this thread. As well as demands, expressions of entitlement, and wild dreams.
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IslanderRebel's Avatar


IslanderRebel
12.27.2012 , 04:48 PM | #48
next time m8, some scrub of a healer *****es you out for being a lousy tank, tell the dweeb to go play Eve Online and go run level 4 missions without a tank. The object of the tank is to have all the aggro while the dpsers jack the enemies up. And for all those so-called healers, sthu and heal everyone so they can kick butt, otherwise, I 'd let them attack your sorry butt and kill you epicly. it takes a team to win in an op, not one single person.

MrSchmo's Avatar


MrSchmo
12.27.2012 , 04:49 PM | #49
I usually am a tank in most cases. I always give out a thank you or good job the the dps and healers. I also offer tips to make things smoother. But I have never, ever been thanked for tanking. I pride myself of controlling the mobs and protecting healers. But no thank yous.
That's why they call it space, cause there is so much of it.

Kurlann's Avatar


Kurlann
12.27.2012 , 05:07 PM | #50
To quote an ancient song of my people, "You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have..The Facts of LFG"

After a break from the game I've dusted off my shadow tank and dove into HM FPs with my shiney free tionesse gear + some black hole/daily comm stuff I had grinded out earlier and so far the experience has been pretty positive. I've tanked in other games and have always been mindful of mitigating damage so I use all my stuns, defensive cds, debuffs and of course i make sure to keep my poop shield up; so far I haven't had any issues with taking too much damage.

But my one really negative experience was when I guarded a dps at the start of the FP and the healer sent me the most vile of whispers. Accusing me of buying my toon, not knowing my class and various other curse-filled statements. And of course he promptly put me on ignore. He didn't give me a chance to explain that I guard dps in FPs so they can run around wily-nily and shred non elites with little concern for threat. And that the healer should take little to no damage if I am doing my job right. I was shocked, we had a good laugh about it in group chat and a few minutes later another healer filled in. Still, it was bizzarre how mad this bro got.