Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.29.2012 , 05:45 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Oh no, I agree completely. Considering defections is one of my favorite parts of these debates. However, defecting refers to joining the enemy's side. Saying that some allies would just choose to be "neutral" and not participate at all seems to be bad for the debate. I don't know, it just seems like a lame argument to me. But maybe that's because I prefer to stick with "at the height of their power".
Well, I'm not gonna start changing any rules just yet. It doesn't seem to effect the battle too much - seeing as the civilian population isn't part of Grievous' war machine and anyone/anything combat related is going to stay loyal to him. However in terms of MtU many Mandalorian clans may rebel if they feel the Mandalorian call to arms is unworthy. And so would fall apart and scatter, leaving MtU and Dxun wide open...

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.29.2012 , 06:08 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well, I'm not gonna start changing any rules just yet. It doesn't seem to effect the battle too much - seeing as the civilian population isn't part of Grievous' war machine and anyone/anything combat related is going to stay loyal to him. However in terms of MtU many Mandalorian clans may rebel if they feel the Mandalorian call to arms is unworthy. And so would fall apart and scatter, leaving MtU and Dxun wide open...
I'm not saying to change any rules. If this argument of nuetrality is valid, which I'm not completely sure it is, it's going to harm the Mandos much more than Grievous.

Moral Argument + Glory ("profit") Argument + Nuetrality Option = Very bad for Mandalore

Here's how I see this senario playing out:

I suspect after the first few battles (even more so if the Mandalorians WIN those battles) the warriors will lose interest in fighting the droids, for sure the B1s, who they see as unworthy foes. The lack of guts and gore will lose all the glory in battle, their main motivation. They will then lose moral and fight half-heartedly. Eventually, (again even more so if Mandalore keeps winning) the Mandos will dislike the idea of wading through trillions of droids with no reward of glory or worthy opponents. They will become spiteful of the confrontations and lose interest, maybe even to the point of questioning Mandalore's leadership.

While Mandalore attempts to keep his clans in check with the Reslonare and the "You shall follow Mandalore" clause, he will probably try to maintain their bloodlust. Maybe by a Great Hunt on Dxun? (That IS how the Great Hunt originated.) Or possibly engaging in world invasions to battle real living things. The Great Hunt on Dxun will result in a full out invasion from Grievous which will end in death, probably of the planet and everything on it. The world invasions will end the same way. Mandos just can't beat Grievous on the ground.

These defeats will either result in Mandalore's death on the battlefield, or leave him without the support of much of his powerbase. Then all Grievous and the trillions of droids have to do is clean up what's left of their Mando foes.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

illidin's Avatar


illidin
12.29.2012 , 06:21 PM | #83
There are a lot of Mandalorian fans out there who severely overestimate their army strength.

Mandalorians have always been strong fighters individually, but have lacked the large numbers of many armies of other galactic powers, such as the Hutt Cartel, Empire, Republic, and in this case the CIS. This can also be related to the Spartans, who the Mandalorians clearly drew some inspiration from. Despite being great fighters, numbers did eventually overwhelm them, even if it was a heavy cost for the enemy.

This moves onto my second point, the armies of the Confederation. It was stated the CIS had nearly a quadrillion battle droids (including droidekas, super battle droids, and anything else), a ginormous number. This number is higher than the armies of any Mandalore in history. The sheer number of battledroids could eventually overwhelm the Mandalorians.

If you arn't picturing the magnitude of a quadrillion battle droids, imagine this; even if the Mandalorians destroyed a billion battle droids there'd be 99 billion left. And lets say there where a billion Mandalorians, and each kills 50 battle droids, that's only half the Confederation's army. And, this is assuming that no Mandalorians die and each one gets 50 kills, so this result is still highly inaccurate.

Lastly, I've seen some people in this thread call General Grievious a bad general and that Dooku or Sidious was the real strategist. This is entirely untrue, as Grievious made his own decisions and had entire control of the Confederation's droid armies. It is stated numerous times he was a brilliant general, and that can be clearly seen if you look at the various military victories he achieved.

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.29.2012 , 06:47 PM | #84
This is only a small point, and will probably not help at all, but Mandalore could nuke key droid manufactures. He has nuclear weaponry, and has used it before. If the plants are to much, he could simply use them on battlefields or CIS planets/meeting areas.

Yep, this is definitely a small point. But let's see where it goes...
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.29.2012 , 07:17 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
This is only a small point, and will probably not help at all, but Mandalore could nuke key droid manufactures. He has nuclear weaponry, and has used it before. If the plants are to much, he could simply use them on battlefields or CIS planets/meeting areas.

Yep, this is definitely a small point. But let's see where it goes...
I'm pretty sure in one of the earlier Kaggath threads it was stated that nukes fell under the "superweapon" category.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.29.2012 , 09:15 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I'm pretty sure in one of the earlier Kaggath threads it was stated that nukes fell under the "superweapon" category.
Quote:
nukes are banned
Around page 7-ish of the Mandalore versus Exar Kun thread. Mandalore can still bombard the planet, but no nukes.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.29.2012 , 09:36 PM | #87
I'd like to make a point concerning the Clone wars:

TCW shows (in the end of season 3 I think) Anakin and Tarkin speaking about how Jedi tactics often hold them back from doing what's necessary. In this since, the CIS was fighting a Republic that was slightly restrained by the Jedi and their code. MtU will not be restrained. It's just a thought.

TheSelkie's Avatar


TheSelkie
12.29.2012 , 09:52 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Anakin and Tarkin speaking about how Jedi tactics often hold them back from doing what's necessary. In this since, the CIS was fighting a Republic that was slightly restrained by the Jedi and their code. MtU will not be restrained. It's just a thought.
Also, in the Republic Commando series several characters point out that the war is only lasting so long because of the way the chancellor is forcing them to spread out their forces. Wouldn't the Republic have hammered the CIS if it wasn't for Sidious meddling? Still, for me it's a victory to Grevious.

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.30.2012 , 07:08 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Around page 7-ish of the Mandalore versus Exar Kun thread. Mandalore can still bombard the planet, but no nukes.
Alright then. It was a last avenue of attack idea, but whatever.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.30.2012 , 07:18 AM | #90
I think we've debated every angle here, so I'll declare the victor later today.