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Anger and fear.


ZayneDraay's Avatar


ZayneDraay
01.16.2013 , 10:20 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak.

I think the ideal Sith would be unbound by any moral standards and would have the Sith efficiency and disregard for weak and Jedi calmness and focus. When I was playing my Sith characters I went by that mentality. I always chose conversation responses that had calmness, wit and mocking attitude. This makes you look like you always have things under control and that nothing can get to you. I never chose options that included anger. I enjoyed the most when Jedi opponent got angry and I would preach to him, make fun of him and tell him how pathetic he is. To me anger is not only a loser emotion but also makes one look unintelligent.
I think your understanding of the dark side is limited, if not totally wrong. Anger is a strong emotion and it can give you strength, but even most sith will warn about long term use. I love it when all these jedi give up on their morals and then attack me in a fit of rage, which to me proves that anger can be a stronger influence than anyone's morals.
"Those who know me by reputation say I am a creature of the cold darkness, a monster if you will. Now you too shall fear me." - Darth Crios, lord of icy wrath

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.17.2013 , 01:17 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith

Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'. Maybe even the Sith Emperor fits into the category.

Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake.

Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's.
I like this idea.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 01:53 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
I like this idea.
I totally dislike, it is just a hierarchy of values viewed as important by author of it.
after all, all Siths get corrupted by the dark side. Power itself is a right goal, just like any other, killing and thrill of the hunt is like any other joy, destruction is not lesser than construction.
only thing that makes Siths different is that they channel emotions in the different way, or they simply channel dark side of the force which just represents chaos, so theres a place for "passion" as it is chaotic in nature, they may consume it and gain strength, it is not written in stone that they get affected by emotions, start throwing rocks, beating wall etc. they may, they can if they want, but it is not neccessary
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.17.2013 , 02:18 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith

Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'. Maybe even the Sith Emperor fits into the category.

Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake.

Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's.
I think Uber-Focused Sith, fits very well with the SI storyline myself. Maybe it's because I didn't play mine pure DS, option! Grrrrr!

But only to a point. Sadly, the game basically directs all characters of a class to the same goal/destination for the most part.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 02:31 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I think Uber-Focused Sith, fits very well with the SI storyline myself. Maybe it's because I didn't play mine pure DS, option! Grrrrr!

But only to a point. Sadly, the game basically directs all characters of a class to the same goal/destination for the most part.
even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.17.2013 , 02:46 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills
I am not against the Sith causing destruction. I am against Sith being angry. Anger, in my opinion, makes one look lame and unintelligent. You can still cause destruction, not in the anger stance, but rather in the pleasure stance which makes you look much cooler (better / badas). And doing it with pleasure would be just as dark side as doing it with anger (if not even more).
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.17.2013 , 02:57 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
I totally dislike, it is just a hierarchy of values viewed as important by author of it.
after all, all Siths get corrupted by the dark side. Power itself is a right goal, just like any other, killing and thrill of the hunt is like any other joy, destruction is not lesser than construction.
only thing that makes Siths different is that they channel emotions in the different way, or they simply channel dark side of the force which just represents chaos, so theres a place for "passion" as it is chaotic in nature, they may consume it and gain strength, it is not written in stone that they get affected by emotions, start throwing rocks, beating wall etc. they may, they can if they want, but it is not neccessary
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills
And yet what you are saying seems to imply otherwise. Its not a hierachy in the sense that Uber Focused Sith are always stronger than Raw Sith. Darth Traya was not stronger than Darth Sidious after all. And Darth Nihilus owns basically everyone.

Like you said, what makes sith different is that they channel/use their emotions in a different way. All dark siders use emotions, but some remain completely detached and draw on them without actually feeling them. No its not written in stone that they all get overwhelmed by emotions, that's why there are three types of Sith.

Should all Sith strive to detach themselves from their emotions? I believe so, because to achieve true power they must overcome the will of the Force. For an Uber-Focused Sith the line 'my chains are broken' rings true. They are not controlled or corrupted by the Force in anyway, it does not wield them like a weapon. They have achieved dominance over it by mastering their emotions. And so have the potential to achieve unlimited power, but most importantly, make their own path. Only Darth Traya and Vectivus can claim to have done this.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 03:02 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
I am not against the Sith killing the weak and causing destruction. I am against Sith being angry. Anger, in my opinion, one makes look lame. You can still cause destruction, but not in an angry stance, but rather in a pleasure stance which make you look much cooler (better / badas). And doing it with pleasure would be just as dark side as doing it in anger (if not even more).
from what I have seen in swtor only few Siths got angry and most of those who got angry did it out of combat. also angr is a pleasure for Siths, anger for a Sith is not only his own but also the one of others, they feed on it, on pure chaos. and to be honest pleasure affects combat abilities more than anger, while anger boosts and may distract then pleasure takes energy away, unless it is just a simple extatic joy in form of euphoria, but then it is a total a chaos, similar to anger. also being angry doesnt mean that it takes pleasure away, while action in process is mostly driven by desire of destruction then there is a happiness when object is destroyed. Definately Anger is not the same thing for force users as for normal people.the main question is focus, whenether one is focused or not, not anger
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 03:17 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
And yet what you are saying seems to imply otherwise. Its not a hierachy in the sense that Uber Focused Sith are always stronger than Raw Sith. Darth Traya was not stronger than Darth Sidious after all. And Darth Nihilus owns basically everyone.

Like you said, what makes sith different is that they channel/use their emotions in a different way. All dark siders use emotions, but some remain completely detached and draw on them without actually feeling them. No its not written in stone that they all get overwhelmed by emotions, that's why there are three types of Sith.

Should all Sith strive to detach themselves from their emotions? I believe so, because to achieve true power they must overcome the will of the Force. For an Uber-Focused Sith the line 'my chains are broken' rings true. They are not controlled or corrupted by the Force in anyway, it does not wield them like a weapon. They have achieved dominance over it by mastering their emotions. And so have the potential to achieve unlimited power, but most importantly, make their own path. Only Darth Traya and Vectivus can claim to have done this.
only if you think that there is a will of the force, dark side unlike light is not a dictator ( well jedi are slaves of their own limits), it thrives in free will of those who takes what they want by any means they want, it is not force that makes them kill, but they kill with a help of force. but I guess you like idea of the living force and its will.
and Traya was pretty corrupted, her face didnt became so unnaturaly pale just because of old age and warm kisses with Nihilus. Vectivus on the other hand, he seems to be much more of a disturbed force user who is rather a material for a little bit lost jedi than a Sith. if anyone is trully focused then it is Vitiate ( who never shown emotions ) then Scourge and Sith Warrior. with Vitiate beinng the most wise and powerful.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.17.2013 , 03:20 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
from what I have seen in swtor only few Siths got angry and most of those who got angry did it out of combat. also angr is a pleasure for Siths, anger for a Sith is not only his own but also the one of others, they feed on it, on pure chaos. and to be honest pleasure affects combat abilities more than anger, while anger boosts and may distract then pleasure takes energy away, unless it is just a simple extatic joy in form of euphoria, but then it is a total a chaos, similar to anger. also being angry doesnt mean that it takes pleasure away, while action in process is mostly driven by desire of destruction then there is a happiness when object is destroyed. Definately Anger is not the same thing for force users as for normal people.the main question is focus, whenether one is focused or not, not anger
I don't think we are on the same page here. I am NOT talking just about how anger works in a Star Wars in respect to the force power. I am completely aware that in Star Wars canon anger provides pathway to more power. I am mainly saying two things. First is that I dislike this concept. And second (most important) is that I think anger makes one look lame and unintelligent. I much prefer the Sith who appear to have everything under control. For example Emperor in ROTJ, grinning and enjoying or Vader chocking officers while calmly making witty and sarcastic remarks (despite them failing him and giving him the reason for anger he appeared like nothing can get to him). That is what looks badas and cool. And that is why they so great villains.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.