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I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb
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kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.03.2013 , 09:59 AM | #371
But seriously I would agree with anyone here that the expansion is just a content update, if the expansion did not increase my level though. I am disappointed that it isn't free, but I anticipated this since F2P came out.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.03.2013 , 10:01 AM | #372
Quote: Originally Posted by kamed View Post
You know that's only 1 dimension you are looking at... I am talking about actual "content" content such as questing, heroics, storylines, flashpoints if any, pvp areas if any, daily areas if any, ops if any and warzones if any. Then we also know that there are datacrons in there somewhere.

We can also speculate that new levels = totally new items (hopefully new craftable things as well).
We can also speculate that there will definitely new combat mechanics involved with the increased level.

But you still haven't addressed the fact that adventure packs only adds quest, but not levels, whereas expansions extend levels. I can consider Belsavis Section X a new adventure pack content update since it did not increase levels, but added new areas to explore and new quest storylines namely HK-51.
No PvP areas from what they've said, and I can't see quest density being that much great than Belsavis as it is ones of the denser planets as it is (compared to say Hoth), so there simply cannot be that much content due to the square footage.

There is 1 planet story line per faction (called Ch4, but it is not seperate for classes).

They've not mentioned any WZ, FPs or OPs so far (however they've talked about redoing current FP/OPs for L55 so I'm not sure there will be any), but I would be surprised if there weren't any daily quests.



Bolting on levels to an "adventure pack", does NOT make it an "expansion", it makes it an "adventure pack (with levels bolted on)".

Any more than bolting a jet engine to a car makes it a plane.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
01.03.2013 , 10:15 AM | #373
Quote: Originally Posted by kamed View Post
You know that's only 1 dimension you are looking at... I am talking about actual "content" content such as questing, heroics, storylines, flashpoints if any, pvp areas if any, daily areas if any, ops if any and warzones if any. Then we also know that there are datacrons in there somewhere.

We can also speculate that new levels = totally new items (hopefully new craftable things as well).
We can also speculate that there will definitely new combat mechanics involved with the increased level.

But you still haven't addressed the fact that adventure packs only adds quest, but not levels, whereas expansions extend levels. I can consider Belsavis Section X a new adventure pack content update since it did not increase levels, but added new areas to explore and new quest storylines namely HK-51.
Yeah, 5 levels (high end) on one planet seems like much more content than pretty much any other planet. Especially if there is no class story, too. That's A LOT of questing to start this new Hutt Cartel story.
You like free stuff, right? Click on this referral link to get yours. I'll get a little something, too. Welcome home. #freethelekku

kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.03.2013 , 10:16 AM | #374
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
Bolting on levels to an "adventure pack", does NOT make it an "expansion", it makes it an "adventure pack (with levels bolted on)".

Any more than bolting a jet engine to a car makes it a plane.

So what would define an expansion or adventure pack then? We have very differing opinions of what it is. Bethseda thinks adding 5 levels and 1 new area to be a DLC expansion worth $20. Bioware thinks that adding a 2-hour Shadow Broker DLC adventure pack with no level increase or the numerous adventure packs from Dragon Age 1 cost at +$10.

The arguments here is essentially "the expansion is not an expansion, because I say so" or "the expansion is not an expansion, because they told me I would not have to pay for it, but now they changed their mind".

Mowermanx's Avatar


Mowermanx
01.03.2013 , 10:18 AM | #375
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
No PvP areas from what they've said, and I can't see quest density being that much great than Belsavis as it is ones of the denser planets as it is (compared to say Hoth), so there simply cannot be that much content due to the square footage.

There is 1 planet story line per faction (called Ch4, but it is not seperate for classes).

They've not mentioned any WZ, FPs or OPs so far (however they've talked about redoing current FP/OPs for L55 so I'm not sure there will be any), but I would be surprised if there weren't any daily quests.



Bolting on levels to an "adventure pack", does NOT make it an "expansion", it makes it an "adventure pack (with levels bolted on)".

Any more than bolting a jet engine to a car makes it a plane.
You're really stretching now, you have no idea, yet babble on as if you know enough to try and lecture the forum about the worth of makeb?
The quality of these forums seems to be diving by the day...

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.03.2013 , 10:33 AM | #376
Quote: Originally Posted by kamed View Post
So what would define an expansion or adventure pack then? We have very differing opinions of what it is. Bethseda thinks adding 5 levels and 1 new area to be a DLC expansion worth $20. Bioware thinks that adding a 2-hour Shadow Broker DLC adventure pack with no level increase or the numerous adventure packs from Dragon Age 1 cost at +$10.

The arguments here is essentially "the expansion is not an expansion, because I say so" or "the expansion is not an expansion, because they told me I would not have to pay for it, but now they changed their mind".
Ruins of Kunark was an expansion with a level increase, Scars of Velious was an expansion without one (Storm Legion, BC and MoM all expansions).

Things like LDON are more "adventure pack".




For Makeb to be an "expansion" I've have expected it to be 3-4 time bigger than it is, in fact I did expect it to be that big.......... until they told us the size of it.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.03.2013 , 10:34 AM | #377
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowermanx View Post
You're really stretching now, you have no idea, yet babble on as if you know enough to try and lecture the forum about the worth of makeb?
The quality of these forums seems to be diving by the day...


You have added so much to this discussion, my thanks.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.03.2013 , 11:16 AM | #378
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
For Makeb to be an "expansion" I've have expected it to be 3-4 time bigger than it is, in fact I did expect it to be that big.......... until they told us the size of it.
Right, but then how much would you pay for it? Around $40-60 for something 3-4 times bigger right? Certainly not $10, that would absurd. If this expansion was 1/4 of what the desired expansion would have been, wouldn't it make sense to price it to appropriately $10-20 then?

To be honest given the state of the game and developers, I don't think they can come up with enough material to justify that 3-4 times expansion size you are looking at especially when they placed their resources onto the development of F2P. Nor could they make the deadline of before the year, but push it back to spring 2013. Given that situation, it would make sense that they release something smaller immediately at the right pricing.

I would rather get an expansion (even it is not that big) in March, than wait till September or November for an expansion size I want. Plus they have already stated that they are adding a bunch of new stuff too. Given that most of the necessary changes have been finally made, the developers can now focus on other things.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.03.2013 , 11:20 AM | #379
Quote: Originally Posted by kamed View Post
Right, but then how much would you pay for it? Around $40-60 for something 3-4 times bigger right? Certainly not $10, that would absurd. If this expansion was 1/4 of what the desired expansion would have been, wouldn't it make sense to price it to appropriately $10-20 then?

To be honest given the state of the game and developers, I don't think they can come up with enough material to justify that 3-4 times expansion size you are looking at especially when they placed their resources onto the development of F2P. Nor could they make the deadline of before the year, but push it back to spring 2013. Given that situation, it would make sense that they release something smaller immediately at the right pricing.

I would rather get an expansion (even it is not that big) in March, than wait till September or November for an expansion size I want. Plus they have already stated that they are adding a bunch of new stuff too. Given that most of the necessary changes have been finally made, the developers can now focus on other things.


As I said the price is about right (well not sure about the F2P price), but it's still an "adventure pack" not an "expansion".

Makeb will have been in development for at least 1 year by the time it is released, content to development-time-wise that's not exactly speedy.

Sure I suspect we'll see a lot of new gambling packs and $15 outfits in 2013, but I'm not so sure what other content SWTOR will see.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.03.2013 , 11:32 AM | #380
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
As I said the price is about right (well not sure about the F2P price), but it's still an "adventure pack" not an "expansion".
I'm kinda confused, so would you be fine to pay $10 for an adventure pack as is, but not for an expansion that is roughly the same size and price as an adventure pack?

Its all just semantics really.

But this goes beyond that since most if not a lot of people are upset also because they don't even qualify this expansion as an adventure pack as you see it, but more of an content update, which they should be entitled to with free access.
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