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Tanks doing dps


TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
12.21.2012 , 04:11 PM | #1
I'm asking this question because my Vanguard is about 51/51 shield/absorb and I still have a few augmentation slots to fill. I keep hearing to go with absorb, but I find mob enrage and difficult mechanics are causing more trouble in operations than tanking/healing. I would really like to up my dps some using crit augments, because my current crit rate is around 23%. Thoughts?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.21.2012 , 05:28 PM | #2
Whatever increase to DPS you get out of stacking more crit are going to be less than you would get out of just using Aim augs. So, if you really want to improve your DPS, use Aim augs rather than crit augs (as a tank, you don't have the Surge to make crit particularly valuable).

As to whether increasing your DPS through your augments is going to make one whit of a difference, it's not. If you're hitting enrage timers, look at improving your DPS rather than trying to eke more out as a tank. At most, tanks deal 700-800 DPS. Your DPS should be pulling in excess of 1800. Rather than trying to address your DPS problems as a tank, try addressing the problem directly by making sure your DPS can actually pull their weight.
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Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
12.21.2012 , 07:48 PM | #3
Essentially that is correct but dps can pull their weight more properly if they're confident that they won't pull aggro and mess up the fight.
As a vanguard it's not terrible but if you believe you can get away with switching endurance/tank stats for aim then go for it.
Yes it's more useful to use threat drops and proper guards or a frontloaded tank rotation instead of increasing your main damage stat but it can be considered when switching from 61 to 63 and having already reached optimal ratings on defences.

Voren_Kurn's Avatar


Voren_Kurn
12.22.2012 , 10:51 PM | #4
IMO if you want some extra DPS I wouldn't bother taking up your aug slots with the effort. (Though if you feel you must, put Aim Augs in.) If anything, moving a few skill points around could have a great effect. It's what I was running with until our dps finally got up to snuff to try to help out as much as I can.

31/8/2

So instead of going the usual route of putting those last 3 points into "Soldiers Endurance" you put them into "Blaster Augs" and most importantly "Heavy Stock"

But of course, if you were already running that build, then I guess using your aug slots is the only other thing left to you besides flat out using dps gear
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.23.2012 , 03:01 PM | #5
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that mitigation mods have power as their second stat, so by auging for mitigation you are still increasing your DPS and threat. Just by a lesser amount than auging with Aim.

Most importantly, as Kitru said, Enrage timers are the fault of your DPS. They need to pick up their game and you simply can't cover the difference while remaining a viable tank. The only time its on the tank to up their DPS/TPS is if they are holding the DPS back because they can't generate enough aggro. Even then, its usually a rotation issue or undergearing issue rather than having the wrong augments.

@OP: if you're having trouble with aggro, consider popping a power adrenal when you pull. Thanks to taunt, that extra threat boost at the start gets magnified later on but it does mean you can't use an armour one for the first 3 minutes of the fight.
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Voren_Kurn's Avatar


Voren_Kurn
12.23.2012 , 08:54 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that mitigation mods have power as their second stat, so by auging for mitigation you are still increasing your DPS and threat. Just by a lesser amount than auging with Aim.
I had completely forgot about that. (I just tend to look at the mitigation stat and not really worry about the secondary xD ) So yeah, even more reasons there isn't really a point to put dps augs into your gear. lol
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toyfanatic's Avatar


toyfanatic
12.24.2012 , 09:00 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Rather than trying to address your DPS problems as a tank, try addressing the problem directly by making sure your DPS can actually pull their weight.
I agree with Kitru on this, if your dps was hitting the mark - enrage would not be a issue. This applys to all ops, doesn't matter if its SM KP or HM Astation. You should worry about your DPS/Threat only if you are loosing threat regularly. And if you are try the simplest route first, guard the hardest hitting DPS. That might be all the solution you need if you are loosing threat. A little more dps you may be able to squeeze out of your gear but don't compramise your defenses to do it. Tanks in general should not be the equalizer in the dps category, the fights will hindge on how well you keep threat.

steave's Avatar


steave
12.25.2012 , 09:45 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Panzerfire View Post
Yes it's more useful to use threat drops and proper guards or a frontloaded tank rotation instead of increasing your main damage stat but it can be considered when switching from 61 to 63 and having already reached optimal ratings on defences.
Which he obviously haven't. You can easily get shield and absorb up to about 60% on a vanguard/powertech, 51/51 is VERY low...
Regardless, even when dealing with BIS dps, you still don't need any dps stuff other then the aim and power that comes with your tanking gear to keep aggro, you just need to use your taunts. Learn the fight mechanics and simply time them properly, start out by using your highest threat abilities at the start and follow it up with a single target taunt (how many depends on how soon you'll need your single target taunt to be available again for tank swaps), wait 6 seconds while continuing to use max threat moves and then aoe taunt. With the % based threat increases from taunts you should now be set long enough for the next tank swap (which will again boost threat b 30% for the next tank), or until your next taunt comes off CD again if the fight doesn't require swaps.

Even if you're having DPS issues, you should STILL never put dps gear on your tanks - if you don't need the extra mitigation you gain from the extra gear, it will free up the healers to do some DPS, while if you do need it you'd otherwise be dead.

DPS gear is fine for tanks in PVP since most attacks bypass all our defenses anyway, but in PVE you should be 100% focused on mitigation and HP.

TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
12.27.2012 , 03:19 PM | #9
Steave, I don't think you understand the point of my post...which is...how much tank gear do you actually need to be an effective tank. Because adding additional tanking gear beyond that point is unnecessary and you might help your op team more by increasing your dps.

Put it this way. HM ops KP and EV were designed for tanks in level 56 gear. Most of these tanks are now running around in mostly level 61 gear. Instead of over-gearing they could be increasing dps.

MantorokTwelve's Avatar


MantorokTwelve
12.27.2012 , 03:32 PM | #10
The only time your DPS as a tank should matter is if you're losing threat. You lose threat because:

1. Your DPS don't have threat drops in their rotation
2. You can't guard a top DPS for some reason
3. DPS has a bursty phase (that doesn't utilize threat drop)
4. Your DPS are so freaking awesome that they break guards, threat drops, and taunts (highly unlikely)
5. You are undergeared/use a bad rotation

Generally you'll lose threat because the DPS aren't threat dropping properly, or if your 3rd highest DPS is pro enough to pull off of you, but can't afford to threat drop (if they're a jugg or powertech for example). In this case, I would say guard the highest DPS that has the most inconvenient threat drop. Powertechs have no threat drop, juggernauts have the only threat drop that costs resources (and therefore, lots of DPS).

A power adrenal to start the fight can be useful, what I like to do is equip a cooldown power relic before the fight, activate it, then equip my PVP or dread guard relic before the fight begins. That way you have your threat boost to start the fight, and haven't burned your absorb adrenal. Or if you're REALLY having trouble, you can pop your relic and a power adrenal.

And honestly, if you're losing threat because you're undergeared/use a poor rotation, you probably won't be lasting long in the first place. Know your rotation, know your spec, and don't be tanking in columi gear when you're in a raid decked out in 63s.