Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Is Merc worth it?


Aaoogaa's Avatar


Aaoogaa
12.26.2012 , 04:33 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Why do I get the impression that you intend to play Merc Pyro like you would PT Pyro?
This is a silly statement. Merc pyro lacks the tools to be played effectively like PT pyro if they had the tools we wouldn't see threads like this. Hiding and losing is the name of the game for mercs...the more we can avoid being noticed the better, but good teams are not going to let you do that. Scrubs? yep, but not good teams.
-I would rather pay for a great game than play a poor game for free.
-Viable and worthwhile are not the same when it comes to class design.
55 Commando - 50 Gunslinger - 50 Guardian
Beta tester...loved the game, hate what it has become.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.26.2012 , 05:32 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Aaoogaa View Post
This is a silly statement. Merc pyro lacks the tools to be played effectively like PT pyro if they had the tools we wouldn't see threads like this. Hiding and losing is the name of the game for mercs...the more we can avoid being noticed the better, but good teams are not going to let you do that. Scrubs? yep, but not good teams.
I definitely agree that Mercs need major quality of life improvements.

As far as LoS-abuse goes, it's not really hiding. It's more like making yourself an uncomfortable target.

That said, I don't see how PT pyro and Merc pyro can be compared head to head. It also largely depends on what we call "effective". Yes, PT pyro is the king of tunnelvision burst. But Merc was designed with other aspects in mind, at least according to yellow posts. It's designed to be strong at mobile damage. However, with the current RWZ dynamics, mobility is less relevant to ranged classes than frequent, heavy direct damage spikes, interrupt and CC immunity.

Bottomline, Pyro Merc isn't a bad class by design. But some classes are simply much better for organized PvP, that's it. As far as solo PvP goes, the only thing I like more than Pyro merc is hybrid Darkness Sin, which is simply too fun to play with all the ridiculous utility at his disposal.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.27.2012 , 02:45 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Yes, PT pyro is the king of tunnelvision burst. But Merc was designed with other aspects in mind, at least according to yellow posts. It's designed to be strong at mobile damage...Bottomline, Pyro Merc isn't a bad class by design. But some classes are simply much better for organized PvP, that's it. As far as solo PvP goes, the only thing I like more than Pyro merc is hybrid Darkness Sin
Merc Pyro was not designed to be strong at mobile damage. Both the abilities it uses to proc Rail Shot are casted abilities that require standing still. PT Pyro was designed to be strong at mobile damage. Both of its abilities it uses to proc Rail Shot can be used while moving. See the difference? My theory is that Merc Pyro was designed by the devs to be a PvE build. It's key abilities are all more effective when used vs. mobs. The stun effect of TD and the lack of cleansing by mobs which allows IM to have full impact are two examples. But the game evolved in ways the devs couldn't even begin to imagine 18 months ago. And so Arsenal which I think the devs intended to be a tank-killing PvP build, is in fact worse at PvP than Merc Pyro.

And bottom line, Merc pyro specifically and Merc dps generally, IS badly designed. The fact that virtually no one plays it in lev 50 PvP is ipso facto evidence of that. Every other advanced class in the game has some usefulness in PvP. But not Merc dps. Want ranged dps? Take a sniper or sorc. Want utility? Take *ANY* class other than Merc. There is NO reason to have a Merc dps on your PvP team. NONE. A class that lacks any reason to exist is badly designed. You really can't argue with that.

Obok's Avatar


Obok
12.27.2012 , 08:55 AM | #44
Like others pointed out, mercs do well in PvE, I didn't feel any class really wouldn't be viable in PvE ever.

If you want to PvP though, we're not viable at all atm. I won't go into too much detail, let's just say we' are in dire need of utility and defenses. Our damage is generally fine, but we're too easy to shut down and lack any serious burst in a game where pvp is defined by stun ==> smash/flameburst/backstab/snipe ==> dead.

Kashard's Avatar


Kashard
12.27.2012 , 05:53 PM | #45
I recently (start of December) started leveling a Merc for fun, it just felt like a good fit for me.

I then looked at a spec and thought that Pyro was for me, alot of running around while pew pewing so to speak. It seemed very different from my 4x 50 Republic toons. Then I did alot of reading on this forum and watching of that amazing set of vids "dont mess with a pyro" which I found all the info I got very imformative once you removed the negative "I want a pony" posts from the equation.

Since I hit 50 just before Christmas ive basicly spent this holiday pvping on my Pyro Merc Dixomi and had some of the most fun ive had ever. Im in full War Hero now, just need to mod swap to finish the set up and vola.

We do fall apart very fast if ingaged by melee. I found that when Rakata Medpac and Kolto Overload are used at the same time, and if Energy Sheild is also up pop that as well I stand a good chance of escape.
Sure vs a good melee, I die 99% of the time, but hay, melee have always been annoyingly overpowered close up, and have way to many tools, I live with it.

So to sum this story up. With abit of hard work and no pre conceptions of invunrability your love the class.
Hidden Beks (EU)
Republic:: Krissy - Sage / Wormhead - Smuggler / Pounder - Trooper / Samnite - Guardian
Imperial:: Dixomi - Mercenary

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.27.2012 , 07:06 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Kashard View Post
We do fall apart very fast if ingaged by melee. I found that when Rakata Medpac and Kolto Overload are used at the same time, and if Energy Sheild is also up pop that as well I stand a good chance of escape. Sure vs a good melee, I die 99% of the time, but hay, melee have always been annoyingly overpowered close up, and have way to many tools, I live with it.
All you are saying is that you can do well with a Merc vs. bad players and have a 1% chance of success with a Merc vs. good players. We all knew that. You can do well vs. bad players with any class. But you also have a better than 1% chance of success vs. good players with any class other than Merc dps.

The issue with Merc dps buffing is that it needs to be narrowly focused. Merc dps is already competitive in PvE. And it is frankly pseudo-dominant in PvP amongst low skill players. The buff must target higher skill PvP. The following buffs do that:

1) Adding damage resistance while stunned, cc'ed or immobilized to a low tier skill. This isn't really applicable to PvE, and lower skill players use holds less frequently.

2) An increase in the lower CD timer on Jet Boost tied to 4 piece PvP gear. No effect in PvE ops. And since low skill players use their defensive abilities only sporadically, it doesn't change the balance of power there.

3) Adding more Accuracy to a low tier skill. Again, useless in PvE. In PvP high geared players can use the additional Accuracy to change their mod/enhancements to have more Power. Not an issue for low gear, low skill players just starting out.

4) Lower CD timer on Determination. Again, same dynamics as with #2 above.

Kashard's Avatar


Kashard
12.28.2012 , 06:59 AM | #47
My point wasnt that we dont need a buff, its that its still a fun class to play and if we had higher numbers if we are to be looked at more closely, those who whine loudest dont always get what they want now in MMO's, thats what the statistic people are for now adays.

I do agree that you make some good suggestions, as are alot of them in this thread, and I hope that the class gets a buff of its own to go with the new expansion ontop of the extra 5 point stuff they are adding.

The accuracy issue is deffo one of my annoyances while remoding my armour and also that our rail shot cool down rarely can be used as to survive I must never stop moving and even when using Unload to proc it then moving instantly its not a 100% chance to proc so its hit and miss.

Id personally like to see our DoT from the Combustible Gass Cylinder be a much higher percent proc chance as at the moment its not up alot and its a spec defining ability as well as has points in it for better DoT below 30% which I feel are used used currently with 1 DoT that you can rely on.
Hidden Beks (EU)
Republic:: Krissy - Sage / Wormhead - Smuggler / Pounder - Trooper / Samnite - Guardian
Imperial:: Dixomi - Mercenary

Choffware's Avatar


Choffware
12.28.2012 , 12:24 PM | #48
I have been playing a Merc since they started the servers. I did take a couple months break but I've been back for a while.

Here is the deal:

DPS:

PVE the dps is now fine you can be a very strong dps'er for your guilds no problem. Arsenal is easier to master but Pyros will do just fine if they learn how to master the rotation and gear properly.

PVP: For unrated you are pretty much ok if you learn not to 1v1 and keep moving and staying at max distance. You will be hard pressed to solo guard or assault anything. You are support for the melee classes and should learn to assist people. Pyro is easier because you need to keep moving and Pyro is slightly more mobile. For rated PVP you are going to be very frustrated. Organized teams are going to take you out first because you are an easy target. They can't leave you up because you will do a lot of damaged unchecked but not enough to warrant your team's protection they need to keep the healers and tanks up. SO most teams are going to look for other DPS classes.

Healer

Healer class is fine in pvp and pve. Some elitist will say that pve wise we are still broken but I say we are pretty good. In pve we take more skill but we can keep our assignments up just fine. In PvP merc healers are actually pretty strong and can be very viable. If you must pvp consider being a healer
Mantorin 55 Marauder || Choff lvl 55 Merc || Chof lvl 51 Sorc

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
12.28.2012 , 12:45 PM | #49
Is Mercenary worth it?

NO. (unless you are healing)

PT/VG is better in EVERY way (minus small self heals and cleanse. which has saved many a n00b healer/group :P )

DPS- VG/PT
Utility- VG/PT
Burst- VG/PT
Mobility- VG/PT
Tanking- VG/PT
Healing- Merc

i spend several hours on the training dummy yesterday, really trying to validate why my Merc is my main over my VG.

i could not find any non-preferential reason. i.e. performance based, VG/PT is superior. PvE, PvP, hell, i wouldn't be surprised if Merc got a debuff in space.

the only advantage i see as a Merc vs. VG/PT is the small heals/cleanse. especially, on SOA, LI, and other instances where an underskilled healer is overtaxed.

oh, and the range. but, i like to view the game, not be under the mob, shooting his junk and butt-stroking his sack.

*EDIT* I love Merc. VG/PT just does it better, faster. sub 50 PvP, Merc owns!! it's a fun class that really fits my playstyle.

i just despise mediocrity. and that is Mercenary...Mediocre.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

Millem's Avatar


Millem
12.29.2012 , 11:20 AM | #50
If in a game debate we have some quotes like "why someone would play Advanced Class X instead of Advanced Class Y?", because X is too clearly inferior and/or useless for a team; you can tell that this game lacks of a good development. In a PvP match, the hole fun consists exactly in a large variant of different play styles and classes to deal. But it seems that BW only wants to see Marauders/Sentinels, Tank Assassins/Shadows and Powertechs/Vanguards in a Warzone.
Untill 1.4, I thought that it was only because they are lazy enuff to fix it. But, after 1.4, I have no doubt that it was intentional. Maybe with only 4 or 5 different classes playing, the cost of a game server becomes cheaper...
MILLEM
Pyro Mercenary