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One planet is not an expansion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One planet is not an expansion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DaRoamer's Avatar

12.27.2012 , 08:22 PM | #531
Quote: Originally Posted by Oggthebase View Post
The issue here is not about:
- the content of the so-called expansion
- the amount of money it is being charged for

The issue is that Makeb was developped with our 2012 subscription money and planned as being included in that subscription model.

I understand that F2P came crashing in the middle of summer and sent all developers working on F2P instead of Makeb, but it's still the subscribers money that went into both projects.

Making subscribers pay a second time for something they've already paid is really a low blow to people who've supported the game throughout the year and I don't intend to give anymore money to Bioscrooge for Makeb.
Unlike other MMO expansions where the money comes from finance fairies!

Edzew's Avatar

12.27.2012 , 10:03 PM | #532
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
Unlike other MMO expansions where the money comes from finance fairies!
almost all other F2P MMOs i have played their expansions were free

DaRoamer's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 12:16 AM | #533
Quote: Originally Posted by Edzew View Post
almost all other F2P MMOs i have played their expansions were free
In every subscription MMO I've played their expansions cost money.

Anosa's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 12:25 AM | #534
ill gladly pay for the expansion

Trevalon's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 02:14 AM | #535
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
In every subscription MMO I've played their REAL expansions cost money.
There I fixed that for you....until it adds 4 more planets, 7-10 new Flashpoints, 2 Ops, 2 Warzones, and a new Class It is not actually an expansion that is worthy of those other expansions you are talking about

Devlonir's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 03:27 AM | #536
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
SImply put, we don't know enough to compare RotHC to something like a WoW expansion.
Very much true, so we cannot compare it either way of the argument really. We simply don't know enough yet. Spring 2013, after the launch, we can make a good and honest debate about if the expansion was worth our $10-$20. Until then, all we can do is speculate one way or the other on the information we do have.

And trying to compare the value of an expansion or content patch based on how long it takes to do the missions / quests and reach level cap is just silly and irrelevant.
I debate that it is not irrelevant because the levelling is the most enjoyable part of TOR. Yes, you are right when you say below that TOR levelling alts is a huge drag if you go through the same planet quests for the 2nd or 3rd time. But either changing faction or doing alternative actions than planet quests to level (like more flashpoints or PVP or using XP boosts) is a very viable strategy in this game as well.
Concerning the point of WoW levelling as well: You can indeed be in a different area. But in for the most part you keep doing the same types quests even in those different areas. Although 1-60 became a nice experience with Cataclysm, it too still has the "kill 10 boars" "gather 10 plants" etc quests very often. Then again, that is how nearly all MMO's or even nearly all RPG's in general are set up. And those that arent like, say, Mass Effect or TSW, have their own levelling issues. Either being too vague/hard for the majority of players or basicly being a corridor filled with enemies as the only type of challenge you get.
WoW levelling, at this time, also has three glaring issues: Earlier expansions. In Cataclysm the old world levelling game was streamlined, but once you hit 60 that comes to a grinding halt and you are back for about 20-25 levels of the same old quests. The amount of different levelling paths in those expansions is also very, very limited.
TOR at least, when it comes to levelling replayability, has the upside of story and dialogues making it slightly interesting throughout the entire thing. Even rolling the same class can be a completely different experience when you choose one of the 3 different 'versions' of each class (evil bastard, goody goody angel or somewhere in the middle).

So really, to me, both games have their own ups and down in alt levelling. And I personally prefer TOR's downsides over WoW's.

What will matter is how much total new content is added, how long it keeps us engaged, and how much replay value it delivers.
This I 100% agree with. For me, I still think we will get an announcement for a new Flashpoint series (like the rakghoul ones) of 2 to 4 FPs and an Ops (maybe even an Ops series eventually like we have now) to round up the entire Makeb story. But unless we get that, we will level to 55 and then go back to the same old endgame and no variation. This would be a huge mistake.
I will reserve judgement on this until Makeb is actually launched, but we agree that this is an important aspect of it being worth the money or not.

And just for the record, the last WoW expansion added a new continent with six or seven full zones (zones being similar to planets), a new race with its own starting area, a new class, three raids, two world bosses, multiple daily zones, five dungeons, three existing dungeons updated and given a level cap version, pet battles, player farms, a complete update to the talent system, new class abilities, and two battlegrounds.
Also for a lot more money and with a two year time between then and the last expansion as well as a full year of no new content added. Blizzard is a development team with years of experience churning out content for their MMO so having a good cycle that has went through it's early growing pains, unlike the startup Bioware team you can expect Blizzard to work more efficiently on their expansions.
Still, fact is that it still costs more money. And we don't know what 'new systems' will also be added with Makeb. Again, we cannot judge this untill Spring 2013.

When we get the details of what will be included in RotHC, we can then start to compare and see how it stacks up to such an expansion in total content and replay-ability and start making comparisons on the relative value of each (which will obviously still have personal biases in the value weighting of the content that is added).
Agree here. For the 10 dollars I expect at least 2 mildly unique stories in Makeb, 1 for Republic 1 for Empire. I expect a rebalancing of classes and abilities because of the 5 new levels and new abilities, making both PVE and PVP feel a bit more fresh. I also expect some flashpoints and 1 ops. That would be acceptable for me personally. Acceptable being far from good I admit.
To make it good, what needs to be added is:
- New gear looks unique to Makeb and not only obtainable through Ops/PVP and/or Cartel Store.
- Part of the "new systems" being at least 1 new mini game like Pazaak, other gambling, or Swoop Racing. All of these fit the Hutt theme good as well.
- At least 1 new World Boss, considering it is a paid planet 2 or more would be better.
- Part of the "new systems" being changes to the current limitation of crafters of what gear they can make in moddable versions (my preferred solution is making all crafted gear Orange quality and making the more unique versions that needs blues or purples come with better mods in them)
- Part of the "new systems" being the promised 'smoothing out of the gear curve', stopping the immense power creep this game has in both PVE and PVP. With the amount of new tiers launched in one year (starting with 3 tiers, now we have 5 tiers of PVE gear) it is key for the future of this game to even it out and Makeb would be the perfect time to do this.
- BONUS: 1 new, faction specific, companion for each faction.

That's what I will measure the succes of Makeb on. And as said: What is announced now is, for me, acceptable for the money I pay. But it won't make make me feel very happy unless some of the other things mentioned also come out with it.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Lucyfer_Infinity's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 04:00 AM | #537
Got mail from RIFT about their Storm Legion expansion:

Battle massive, world-changing colossi for epic loot

Ascend to level 60 and wield the power of 4 new Souls

Adventure across two new continents tripling the size of the world

Thats an expansion.

1 planet? Increase the world size by 1/17th? Pffft no thank you.

Edzew's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 06:15 AM | #538
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
In every subscription MMO I've played their expansions cost money.
but this is no longer a subscription MMO its free to play!!! or did you forget that bit?? it just has an option for you to subscribe to get some extra perks.

Fadomas's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 06:46 AM | #539
Quote: Originally Posted by Edzew View Post
but this is no longer a subscription MMO its free to play!!! or did you forget that bit?? it just has an option for you to subscribe to get some extra perks.
You are confused, because you can get up to level 50 for free, doesnt make the game entirely FTP... unless you like to level up alts all the time, which is not what mmo players really looking for.
FTP is there to make you subscribe or buy cartel items.

SWaotc's Avatar

12.28.2012 , 06:56 AM | #540
Makeb MIGHT be an expansion, but if its lacking in quality and quantity then it'll simply hurt EAs profits the next time time they punt out DLC.

There will be people who like it, hopefully this will be justified. If not, lets hope even more people see it for what it really is.