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Vanguards Tanks: What you never expected

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Vanguards Tanks: What you never expected

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
12.18.2012 , 01:05 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by NickEwok View Post
There is nothing tanky in regards to PvP in terms of the "shield talents" in the ironfist build which was viable,only in terms of white damage at best. This spec takes away those shielding talents and puts a bit more effort into the dps function while not revolving around it.
A build that relies on using the tank tree and the tank cylinder is going to be called a tank build. You're build makes the player overheat quickly with low damage dealing potential that due to its lack of surge talents, ammo regeneration, and lack of synergy between cell and skill points.

Quote: Originally Posted by NickEwok View Post
This build focuses on Extremely high damage output, while having the total MAXIMUM increase in flat/aoe damage mitigation
No, this build would have a tough time competeing with 31 points in shield specialist for damage output and thats saying something.

Honestly, you'd be better off just running 31 pt AP and tossing on Ion cylinder if you feel like using guard. Although, I wouldn't even do that outside of a defending round on voidstar where your team is stacked with healers and tanks.

NickEwok's Avatar


NickEwok
12.18.2012 , 01:23 PM | #22
Evuo, I revamped the build to 13/28/0 adding passive regen and 1 point in havoc training. This thread is to try somthing new, instead of being condecending maybe help come up with solutions instead. In the shield specialist tree outside of ion shield, the rest is merely utility/shield/and regen management. Having storm as a gap closer to get up close for a tank class that is lackluster "up close" due to no defensive cooldowns is a bad idea. Outside of some roots and more shielding abilities obselete in PVP, I disagree with you completely about a 31pt tank.
Soultiger
Jedi Shadow PvP
The Watchmen
Jedi Covenant :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYc-Z32VCY

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.18.2012 , 01:25 PM | #23
I have a solution.

10/31/0

Sorry... but the DPS you're sacrificing for nearly no tankyness just doesn't add up.

NickEwok's Avatar


NickEwok
12.18.2012 , 01:32 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I have a solution.

10/31/0

Sorry... but the DPS you're sacrificing for nearly no tankyness just doesn't add up.

A crit on ion pulse will not be missed, maybe on stockstrike, but this build will use a full tank set. As stated, not a dps build, but a tank build with a dps spin. Ill take a hit on crit damage for an 18 second 20% accuracy debuff that affects all targets and ammo regen.
Soultiger
Jedi Shadow PvP
The Watchmen
Jedi Covenant :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYc-Z32VCY

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
12.18.2012 , 01:38 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by NickEwok View Post
Evuo, I revamped the build to 13/28/0 adding passive regen and 1 point in havoc training. This thread is to try somthing new, instead of being condecending maybe help come up with solutions instead.
If you make questionable choices expect to be critcized. It's been said by myself and others if you really want to guard with AP skills, then just run a variation of 31 pt AP and toss on Ion cell/gas cylinder.

Vornox's Avatar


Vornox
12.18.2012 , 01:50 PM | #26
Though I've never actually posted on these forums before now, I am a long time viewer.

As a fellow long-time Vanguard (Powertech) PvP tank, I could not just sit idly by while this build was seriously discussed. There is no other way to put this so I will just say it outright: your build is terrible. You are giving up way too much damage for very little survivability. Here is the build I have been running in PvP ever since respecing has become free in 1.5 (and I realize this is full tactics):
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/v...k-9d7fc6ee92-c

I believe this is the standard Vanguard PvP tanking build. You should run this in Ion Cell, and use full damage gear including a generator (but remod using high endurance damage enhancements). You should prefer surge to accuracy as the only ranged attack which really matters to this build is High-Impact Bolt (Railshot). Guard a healer at the start of the match but switch to people getting focused.

Here is why I believe this build is better:
  • Smoke grenade (Oil Slick) is ok for PvE tanking, but it is AWFUL for PvP. Most classes will be using primarily force/tech attacks and thus safely ignore the debuff. Those who don't are:
    -Gunslingers (Snipers) - Most non-Marksman won't even care. They also have an accuracy buff which will more than cancel this out.
    -Shadows (Assassins) - Would be a good time to use Resilience (Force Shroud), since it will also remove the debuff in addition to make them immune to most of your attacks for 3 seconds. Also have plenty of force attacks to use if they don't want to (or it is on cooldown).
    -Non-Focus Knights (Non-Rage Warriors) - The two advanced classes under this base class are the "hardest hit" by Smoke Grenade, they still have some force attacks. They could also blow one of their defensive cooldowns (which are generally much better than yours) and simply outlast you.
    Even if they are using melee/ranged attacks, the debuff could still not make a difference because it is pathetically weak (only 20%). You could hit the button and still have a high chance to get hit from their attacks.
  • Havoc Training (Prototype Weapon Systems) and Fire Pulse (Immolate) are some of the highest damage talents in a Tactics (Advanced Prototype) build. I'd need a very good reason to give them up.
  • Extra armor from Rebraced Armor is good, but not great. Many classes can penetrate a percentage of your armor (or all of it; see Precision Strike/Gore), making this talent less valuable than it looks. Still armor is useful in PvP and I do see some merit in this choice.
  • The 3% endurance from Soldier's Endurance (Integrated Cardio Package) is negligible, but 8% increased damage on your hardest hitting attack (before crits) is not. Heavy Stock (Iron Fist) is clearly better and fewer points.
  • Battlefield Training (Pnematic Boots) does nothing when you are in Ion Cell.
  • Most of the other differences are personal taste.

The biggest downsides to my PvP build are:
  • No way to regain ammo (heat) since I'm running Ion Cell, but your build doesn't either. Stockstrike (Rocket Punch) is free after Fire Pulse (Immolate), but otherwise you have to be cautious about your spending. This is much less of a problem in PvP than PvE though.
  • Don't have Storm (Jet Charge), Energy Blast (Heat Blast), or Ion Screen (Flame Shield). All of these are fantastic for PvP tanking (I miss storming to people on ledges in Huttball), but they are the price you pay for avoiding the rest of the lackluster Shield Spec tree.

Wookieenator's Avatar


Wookieenator
12.18.2012 , 02:25 PM | #27
whatever you took before making this thread please enlighten me.

FeralPug's Avatar


FeralPug
12.18.2012 , 02:30 PM | #28
No. Just no.

For the love of coconuts people, just stop.

PT's have no hybrid choices. We actually have no choice other than pyrotech. You are either pyrotech, or you are occupying a spot in a WZ that could be more effectively filled by another class.

This is not to say that you can't run around with alternative specs for the occasional funz. Lord knows I do it all the time in unranked just to keep my PT interesting. But let's not kid ourselves...it's pyro or it's gimpville.

To all those new PTs I keep seeing running ion this-and-that tank build in the WZ's: Stop. Please stop. Stop it. Right now. You are taking up a spot in my ops group. It would be better if it were empty so the healer didn't have another mouth to feed. A backfilled 14k HP backpedaling sorc would be a dream come true over a "hybrid" PT.

Unless you're on the other team...in which case, hybrid yourself into oblivion so we can 3 cap your gimped *** and get done with our weekly.

No. PT's have one viable spec in PVP: pyro. Sure, AP can be fun occasionally, but basing a DPS build on a AOE cone effect that is subject to interweb latency is the most asinine excuse for a PVP ability that I have ever seen. Sure, run it with Ion. You'll live a global cooldown longer and overheat faster.

AP is so amusing to me after running a smash marauder. Both specs are build around an AOE ability but:

1. Mara smash is instant
2. It's fully 360 degrees
3. Mara is way more survivable
4. Mara puts up loads more damage
5. Mara has way more utility for a team
6. Mara has 100% chance to crit on smash.

AP is fun. Probably my favorite "fun" spec to play in the game, but it's hopelessly gimped.

Let's not even talk about shieldtech in PVP, because it's a total joke. I flex to it with a shield gen in HB if we absolutely have no carrier in our PUG, but that's it. Even then it is frustratingly lacking when compared with other tanks.

No matter how many terrible PT builds and nerdy names people come up with, we're still stuck with a fundamental truth: there is only one reason to have a PT on your team, and that is pyro burst damage. In all other aspects of the game, it is far outpaced by other classes. Fortunately, it does the burst very well and is worth bringing one or two on a ranked team.

Sorry this turned into an "AP is gimped" post. I just can't freakin' help myself because I find it so frustrating that PT's have one build that is worth anything.

Sad, but true.
Jerc Starr Jercules Jercenary Drastic
Social 1. Valor 100.

<Hex> www.tehhex.com

Nightkin's Avatar


Nightkin
12.18.2012 , 02:49 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by FeralPug View Post
1. Mara smash is instant
2. It's fully 360 degrees
3. Mara is way more survivable
4. Mara puts up loads more damage
5. Mara has way more utility for a team
6. Mara has 100% chance to crit on smash.
That maras are horribly overpowered is nothing new though, maybe we should replace all PTs with maras, period.
Whaaaaambulance at your service

FeralPug's Avatar


FeralPug
12.18.2012 , 02:58 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Nightkin View Post
That maras are horribly overpowered is nothing new though, maybe we should replace all PTs with maras, period.
My TTK is faster with my pyro. No doubt about it.
Jerc Starr Jercules Jercenary Drastic
Social 1. Valor 100.

<Hex> www.tehhex.com