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Shadows and Scoundrels

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Shadows and Scoundrels

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
12.18.2012 , 12:08 PM | #11
I have a hard time following a few posts in this thread. It's like a foreign language to me.

That being said; I think I can make out that the answer is to nerf operatives.






Oh. And buff assassins while you are at it. They need more abilities please.

warultima's Avatar


warultima
12.18.2012 , 12:59 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I have a hard time following a few posts in this thread. It's like a foreign language to me.

That being said; I think I can make out that the answer is to nerf operatives.






Oh. And buff assassins while you are at it. They need more abilities please.
Shadows/Sins are in good place, all they are missing is Force Charge, Undying Rage and probably triple the damage of Spike and make Duplicity a passive skill for spending 3 points into deception tree.
| Lv50 Madness Sorc | Lv50 Annihilation Marauder |
| Lv50 Pyrotech Power Tech | Lv50 Medicine Operative |
| Lv50 Sharpshooter Gunslinger | Lv 26 Darkness Assassin |

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
12.18.2012 , 02:19 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Marisblood View Post
You should read first the topic before posting, Mr. Scoundrel.
I have scoundrel and shadow and i know both classes.
I also know who is stronger.
DPS tree, i know ppl make confusion with shadow tanks, so it is about dps tree only.
Scoundrel's are NOT the top DPS class to even suggest it shows a serious lack of knowledge of other classes, they have a great opener from stealth but anybody that knows the class will have a good chance of to defeating it. My watchman would smoke your scoundrel. I bet some of my shadow friends would also.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

Larzi's Avatar


Larzi
12.18.2012 , 02:26 PM | #14
Dueling is one thing, but overall useful dps in an ops situation is somethign else entirly.

Since its the pvp forum, Shadows > Scoundrels in pvp mainly due to their energy management systems.

Have any shadows gone against a dirty fighting scoundrel?
Pub: 55 vanguard tank/ 55 mando/ 55 guard/55 scoundrel

Imp :55 jug tank/ 55 pt/55 sin/ 47 sniper

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
12.18.2012 , 02:53 PM | #15
I play both Shadows and Ops/Scoundrels in PvP, and have done so since release.

I often try and understand the point of view of a poster. But in this case, the OP is just so wrong in so many areas that I have trouble believing that he is not a troll. He might also be the worst Shadow on his server, which would explain his entire post.
Quote: Originally Posted by Marisblood View Post
The duel between those 2 is complicated and the scoundrel start obviously with an advantage (dps one).
Scoundrels have better burst DPS in the first second of the fight and then again if they pop Disappearing Act. For the rest of the fight, however, Sins/Shadows of basically any spec have comparable burst damage. And as for SUSTAINED damage, Sins/Shadows are the resounding winners no matter what they spec into.
Quote:
Shoot first (8 sec CD) is far better then kik (1 minute), dodge (4 sec) vs resilience (3 sec) is better, recuperate give them HP recovery, they also have Underworld Medicine, Kolto Pack, Diagnostic scan as healing, tendon blast keep the target in place, slow from shadow only slow for 50%.
Let's start with the stuff that you got right. Ops do have heals! It's true! This is literally the only edge that this class has over Sins/Shadows in PvP, and I am glad we have it. Ops also have a snare off of Tendon Blast, but Shadows can spec into BOTH Subduing Technique and Humbling Strike for additional slows that Ops do not have access to period. Or they can spec into Balance for an additional 2 second stun off of Force Lift (Containment) or a snare off of Sever Force.

Up until now I thought you were just misinformed. Then I saw you compare Evasion to Resilience.

Resilience/Force Shroud is probably the best PvP CD in the game. It is not even remotely similar to Evasion. The only thing that the two have in common is a momentary cleansing of all negative effects.

But the similarities stop there. Evasion just grants immunity to melee and ranged attacks, i.e. swinging a lightsaber or pewpewing a blaster. Resilience grants a Shadow 100% immunity to every single tech and force ability in the game. You can't reapply DOTs. You can't reapply debuffs. You can't stun them. You can't snare them. And god forbid that the Shadow specs it, granting 5 seconds of immunity instead of just 3.

Even combined, all of the scoundrels defensive CDs (all 2 of them) do not even come close to Resilience and Shroud.
Quote:
Scoundrel started as GOD mode class, wich make players believe they get nerfed every single time Bioware try to fix the class, wich is not true ofc. They were good in 1.3 but got rebufed in next patches specaily 1.4. They need NERFS to be fixed proper.
Scoundrel DPS is currently better than Commando/Merc, better than Sorc/Sage (in the hands of a good player), and worse than literally everything else. In terms of survivability, they are the second squishiest after Sorcs/Sages (who at least get Bubble and Speed and Whirlwind/Lift). This is unquestionable in PvE, where virtually every parse since June has shown Scoundrels/Ops lagging behind every other DPS class. The parses are less reliable in PvP, but it is still clear that they lag behind almost every other AC.
Quote:
If this game have 2 stelth class then both need to have similarities. I wish kik same as shoot first, i wish slow same as tendon blast, i wish resilience 4 sec like dodge, i wish recuperate, i do not wish healing, but i wish dot talent with instant cast to prevent stelthers vanish without using a CD for that like dodge or resilience. Then it will be a fair balance.
Those "balances" prove that you have no idea what you are talking about. Those changes would make Shadows/Sins the most outrageously OP class in PvP. Worse than Smashers and worse than Bubblestunners. There would be literally no reason to play a DPS Scoundrel/Op if you instituted those hilarious "balances", because Sins/Shadows would have higher burst, higher sustained, better survivability, AND better PvP utility.

I normally try to stay levelheaded on this forum (a feat), but people like you really bring down the boards.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
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---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

Campaigner's Avatar


Campaigner
12.18.2012 , 04:28 PM | #16
Just stack more intelligence.
OldTraunus (Formerly Traunus from SoEK)
Prophecy of the Five
<Old Republic War>

Xinika's Avatar


Xinika
12.18.2012 , 04:40 PM | #17
Is this... a nerf operatives thread?

If so, well done.
Assassin Representative
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xxdragonragexx's Avatar


xxdragonragexx
12.18.2012 , 05:22 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Threads like these are part of why we can't have class balance. Poor Scoundrels. Poor Commandos.
You do know that devs do not want class balance, right? They need FOTM classes so that people will keep rerolling which means more subscription money.

warultima's Avatar


warultima
12.18.2012 , 07:31 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by xxdragonragexx View Post
You do know that devs do not want class balance, right? They need FOTM classes so that people will keep rerolling which means more subscription money.
Sadly, but everything in the current SWTOR's PvP designs, all of a sudden made sense.
| Lv50 Madness Sorc | Lv50 Annihilation Marauder |
| Lv50 Pyrotech Power Tech | Lv50 Medicine Operative |
| Lv50 Sharpshooter Gunslinger | Lv 26 Darkness Assassin |

Sir_Galapagos's Avatar


Sir_Galapagos
12.18.2012 , 09:43 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Marisblood View Post
The duel between those 2 is complicated and the scoundrel start obviously with an advantage (dps one).
Shoot first (8 sec CD) is far better then kik (1 minute), dodge (4 sec) vs resilience (3 sec) is better, recuperate give them HP recovery, they also have Underworld Medicine, Kolto Pack, Diagnostic scan as healing, tendon blast keep the target in place, slow from shadow only slow for 50%.
Scoundrel started as GOD mode class, wich make players believe they get nerfed every single time Bioware try to fix the class, wich is not true ofc. They were good in 1.3 but got rebufed in next patches specaily 1.4. They need NERFS to be fixed proper.
If this game have 2 stelth class then both need to have similarities. I wish kik same as shoot first, i wish slow same as tendon blast, i wish resilience 4 sec like dodge, i wish recuperate, i do not wish healing, but i wish dot talent with instant cast to prevent stelthers vanish without using a CD for that like dodge or resilience. Then it will be a fair balance.

Just think on that, scoundrel is strongest dps class atm in 1v1 duels.
you have obviously never played the game bc you are totaly wrong. i rolled a scoundrel first and they suck. shock(not sure the mirror name) which in a certain hybrid i like to roll has a 6 sec cd and i have hit for 6k. The most i have ever hit for on shoot first is 4k and dont forget that u have to be in stealth and behind the target to use it plus maybe scoundrels have heals but shadows dont have to cast there tank cds.
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