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How can anyone take the empire seriously?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
How can anyone take the empire seriously?

SnoggyMack's Avatar


SnoggyMack
12.19.2012 , 01:06 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Kleryk View Post
While the Sith Empire, from Republic Trooper perspective, looks like this: strong, well trained military with high funds on high-tech toys and advanced weaponry, led by VERY competent commanders that crush all that stands in their way. AND those ****** commanders, unlike most governors/senators/other local leaders on republic settlements/planets actually answer to unified leadership of the Council and the Emperor which gives them strength of quick decisions and careful planning on their end.
On places like Hoth and Tattooine, it felt that way.

Then my Trooper got to Corellia. And the Imperials seemed to really take it down a notch. They hang out behind fences, in tents, and never really bother to cross any of the roads. They rely far too much on droids in a vast urban infrastructure and they control practically none of the underground infrastructure. Throughout their occupied territory, rebels control cantinas, buildings, and many strategic areas.

And the General in charge of it all hides behind a castle (er, uh, Bastion) making a decison that reflects poorly even in medieval times in human history.

The imperials on Hoth were scary.

The imperials on Corellia were fluffy and cuddly and completely easy to roll over.
Snoggy Mack
My Blog
My quote: "All the other kids with the pumped up Sith, you better run, better run, faster than my blaster"

YeIIow's Avatar


YeIIow
12.20.2012 , 12:01 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by OceanwaveII View Post
No you demand bio ware put actual choice in there narrative and stop being lazy , consular story has to be one of the laziest one-dimensional branching writing I have ever seen . YOU do not force a player down a path then offer moral choices that are suppose have some effect on defining there character . Plenty of fallen dark Jedi in star wars lore hell there one in the imperial agent instead of getting a proper story with branching choices . Get some crap railroaded down one road . One of the reason so many people despise the consular story . (Sith Warrior Honorable warrior looking to redeem the emperor or a malevolent monster , and hell the Imperial agent story the choices damn near alter ever act and the ending , and a far as possible from black and white cartoony dark side/light side choices ? ) Hell there not even a companion on your squad that will vehemently disagree with you , Boring , At least the Jedi Knight has Lord Scourge who provide a completely different point of view ,

Consular ? Oh we are too lazy to write branching story paths with conflict or put any effort into it .lol.. think there a reason that Republic player complain Bio-ware is imperial biased LOL and a lot of people truly hate the consular story .I doubt it will change since the Empire sales better and will most likely get more resources.

. There was definitely more effort put into the Imperial story than the republic ones . Probably because it was more difficult. Most of star wars the Sith tend to be faceless evil caricature with very little realistic depth .To be fair the background jedi are just as one-dimensional , it really only the heroes that had any depth , Luke Obi-wan etc Leia , Her Children etc ) But the Sith in a classic pre-EU interpretation as pure evil is evil can get, going to conflict with a good/bad moral systems bio-ware typical employ, forcing them to philosophically flesh out the Empire story better ,

In-retrospective the Republic story are easier to write . they just had to copy paste ever generic element of star wars. Good guys this , Chant the good guys some more and your done. Not much a writing challenge to be honest . Jedi Knight is word for word a copy of ever plot cliche of the original trilogy while the consular story seem to have zero direction/story flow.. beyond to seem "Good". Writing a Light Side Sith /neutral sith iwas probably more of a challenge , Making the Imperial agent story took far more of a challenge and it shows in the quality and how human the character feels that they've been crapped on by the galaxy.

With the Jedi particular the consular Bio-ware seems like they didn't even care , They made a generic character zero branching narratives and zero depth , zero dramatic tensions , and no fallibility and zero consequences for any of there actions. . People are critical of it because in this day in age people expect more moral ambiguity from there stories , there little tolerance for old school generic Fantasy black/white morality .Also the Game TOR is based on (KOTOR ) was based on exploring the complexity of moral ambiguity and was famous for it . Jedi consular story spits on it really complete trash in comparison to the original kotor , .Hell in kotor 2 the Jedi where incredibly corrupt fearful and bigoted.
i never said the contrary, as a matter of fact i agree with u, my first playtrought was a ejdi knight, for the second one
i wanted to experiment a bitt and decided to go Sith Warrior, ended up liking and loving the Empire, and the class-stories on this side wayyyyyyy better.

But sombody complaining becouse they went all light or all dark with their characters, and the story ended up feeling stupid, well as i said, thats why u have to Role Play ur character the way u want, even if the story is stupid in general u can still try to make the best of it.... Farming DS or LS points aint the way to do so...

z-monty's Avatar


z-monty
12.20.2012 , 12:23 PM | #43
I mean if you look at the whole of the expanded universe in Star Wars, it's hard to take either side seriously...

Republic: Ruled by corrupt politicians at every turn with only a very few only really wanting to do the 'right thing' instead of just grab more power. Always hindered by massive red tape and unable to get much of anything done.

Empire: Ruled by Sith who only care about getting more power for themselves. Hindered by the 'humans only' thought and putting all other species below them. Always seems to eat itself away from the inside.

Take a look at the history and you see it's just one big massive circle: Republic ruling the galaxy and Empire thought gone but quietly building back up, Empire then takes over and beats the Republic into submission, then Republic wins again and thinks the Sith gone forever, lather, rinse, repeat.

But, as was said, who takes games and fiction this seriously?
Quote: Originally Posted by Sutii View Post
No, I'm not a big fan of the Queen or Royal Family, but yes, I do love tea.
Well played CS... well played

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
12.20.2012 , 01:13 PM | #44
Empire with all Sith "flaws" has much more chance of progress and development than Republic

and Republic, well it is democracy(I'm sorry for using this horrible, vulgar word), whenever democracy shows up it means that people gonna be dumbed down and ruled by a mob, I can only hope that Empire gonna win against this derranged republic being

Malkavier's Avatar


Malkavier
12.20.2012 , 02:08 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
On places like Hoth and Tattooine, it felt that way.

Then my Trooper got to Corellia. And the Imperials seemed to really take it down a notch. They hang out behind fences, in tents, and never really bother to cross any of the roads. They rely far too much on droids in a vast urban infrastructure and they control practically none of the underground infrastructure. Throughout their occupied territory, rebels control cantinas, buildings, and many strategic areas.

And the General in charge of it all hides behind a castle (er, uh, Bastion) making a decison that reflects poorly even in medieval times in human history.

The imperials on Hoth were scary.

The imperials on Corellia were fluffy and cuddly and completely easy to roll over.
Create a Sith Warrior, get Pierce, max out Pierce's affection, then do his companion questline. You'll find out exactly what happens to that General and his Bastion.

Then there is the Imperial story on Corellia in general...

Spoiler


As for the slave rebellion on Dromund Kass:

Spoiler


To address the person who thought the IA story was "bad", try playing it as a Light Side Chiss Female. I've played through several stories now and none of them have even compared to the options you get using that combination, or how deep down the rabbit hole it goes.
L50 Annhi Marauder L50 Madness Sorc L17 Gunslinger L23 Pyro Tech L35 Medic OP L17 Marks Sniper L50 Lethality Sniper

"Your fear angers me. My anger feeds my hate. My hate gives me strength."

Allronix's Avatar


Allronix
12.21.2012 , 09:52 PM | #46
Honestly, I have to wonder that myself:

1) The Senators have a 50/50 chance of being corrupt. But even the corrupt ones are SANE, and there are legal procedures to remove idiots from office. The way the Empire is set up? A bunch of nutcase, justifiably-paranoid axe murders whose only real credentials are the ability to slaughter their way to the top.

2) The Senators and Grand Moffs are both getting the same amount of kickbacks, nepotism, red tape, graft, pet projects that amount to "what in HELL were you thinking?!," and bribery. Again, the Republic has procedures to address it and the Empire only "addresses" it by being faster with a gun or lightsaber, leading to a goverment where the only real credential you have is being better at killing the other guy. Seriously, they want to think they're John Galt and they're really just Dexter Morgan.

3) The Republic is a mess partly due to the fact they have thousands of worlds, species, cultures, and sub-cultures to deal with. The Sith's idea to "deal" with it is to keep about 90% of their population as chattel slaves, so that their talents, intelligence, and possible contributions can't come to fruition. See that nutcase running a concentration camp on Nar Shadaa. How many scientists, technicians, fighters, and laborers did he just waste in the name of "Human High Culture?" Even better, any "advancement" you can make in society is by being better with a blaster, blade, or (rarest of rare) Force-Lit. This leads to stagnation, as much as the Sith want to boast that their way is adaptable and the way of the "strong," it only acknowledges two type of strength - brute force and backstabbing.

4) No one else has any incentive to do much aside from undermine their masters and each other. They're too busy stabbing each other in the back to get anything done. Sith advance by killing their masters at the first opportunity. Imperial officers do the same (but the trick it to not be so crass as to have it traced back to you - find some fall guy). Slaves have to stab each other to get a crumb out of their masters . their Masters always have to be on alert for a slave revolt - they're so busy squabbling with one another one wonders how they even manage to take the Republic on!

5) Their Emperor is an omninicidal nutcase! We're talking the grandbaby of Nihilus, a Reaper, Pinhead, and Cthulu. Meanwhile, the Darths are too busy backstabbing each other to add it all up and realize this guy needs to go.

6) If you're not Force-Lit, you're pretty much dirt in Imperial Society. You do all the grunt work but the Sith get to rule. You can get pretty high, but you'll always have to salute some punk kid with a lightsaber. A Republic fellow? You can work your way up to Supreme chancellor (at least in theory).
Alylia Terel of Guild Meridius, Bergen Colony
Meridius: Offering Assistance to Friends of the Republic. World Bosses, Imperials, and Sith defeated. Datacrons procured and worlds explored.

MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
12.21.2012 , 10:01 PM | #47
How can anyone take the Jedi seriously? They throw pebbles at you with the Force and call that a power.
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Allronix's Avatar


Allronix
12.21.2012 , 11:23 PM | #48
Tell it to the last Imp who tried taking my position at the Novare coast. Better one trick that works than a dozen that might.
Alylia Terel of Guild Meridius, Bergen Colony
Meridius: Offering Assistance to Friends of the Republic. World Bosses, Imperials, and Sith defeated. Datacrons procured and worlds explored.

MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
12.22.2012 , 12:19 AM | #49
It's Star Wars, it's cartoony by it's very nature. The original film was inspired by the old matinee serials like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon that G. Lucas used to watch as a kid.
I agree if it was "realistic" the universe would likely be ruled by Force users like the Jedi or Sith, possibly made corrupt by their political power, but not necessarily villainous evil characters as they are portrayed in TOR. Star Wars isn't realism though, it's fantasy.
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MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
12.22.2012 , 12:22 AM | #50
And no, before someone chimes in with "but it's sci-fi", no it's not. It's fantasy. SW has more in common with a fairy tale than with any serious work of science fiction.
Armormech-Armstech-Chemist-Mor-gon-M'orgon-Maxxi
Armormech-Armstech-Biochem-Artifice-Synthweaving-Cybertech
The Craft Legacy ~The Ebon Hawk