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SWTOR should've been a RPG


CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
12.16.2012 , 05:42 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by FeelFlow View Post
OK fair point. Obviously BW couldn't produce a game where throughout you could completely change the direction that it went in i.e. all roads lead to a certain encounter 2/3 of the way through KOTOR.

EDIT: As it would be too expensive to provide multiple storylines making different events spin off in different directions. END EDIT.

I seem to remember that you could change the game significantly at the end if you went dark-side. I mean things like that.
The same applies to a number of class stories. But still it's a "choose your ending" choice at the end with little heed payed to the rest of your playthrough. There's a lot of critique about this game, but as far as story goes, it's quality BioWare story unless you hit the level cap. If you truly want KotOR3, I'd recommend reading the books in this era, then playing Jedi Knight followed by Sith Warrior.

Taorus's Avatar


Taorus
12.16.2012 , 05:43 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Andar View Post
LOL ya because player housing was totally the reason the game wasn't shut down. Fail post is fail.
This game won't make it as long as galaxies lasted. Fact.
Fixed it for you.

Andar's Avatar


Andar
12.16.2012 , 05:58 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Taorus View Post
Fixed it for you.
thanks!

FeelFlow's Avatar


FeelFlow
12.16.2012 , 07:05 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Blarpped View Post
Full disclosure: I never played a Bioware single player game.

I think the storyline is great, but the gameplay sucks. It's too disjointed. I can't be given an epic story and then be told to go kill 10 rats. It just doesn't work. Was the gameplay in KOTOR compelling and exciting or was it the same garbage? How about the other Bioware games?

I can go play Deus Ex: Human Revolution that has a great story and great gameplay. As a single player game, TOR fails. Good story alone does not make a good video game.
I agree there's too many collect/activate/deactivate the random thing in the game which you feel anyone could do.

As I was saying earlier, I wish they had concentrated on the main planet questlines a little bit more ie more heroic quests.

If they wanted to keep a few bonus extra funny quests in, all good. And I like the way that they used the bonus quests to give you optional extras. Those would've been good ways to beef up quest chains.

FeelFlow's Avatar


FeelFlow
12.16.2012 , 07:09 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by redsovereign View Post
Agree with a lot of the things you talk about in your post however you could for example kill off you companions in the beta, however ofc all the kiddos killed off all their companions and then complained and QQed that they had no companions left so Bioware changed it.

But yes I agree with that in esp some story lines there is a continuity problem with your actions not having enough impact of what happens next.

Personally I like that TOR is a mmorpg because having other ppl running around that I can interact with makes the game feel more alive to me, that was my problem with KOTOR; when you were done you were done and since u were the only living being around the areas became very static.

Same problem in Mass Effect, I think that Bethesda is on a good way of fixing it with Skyrim but tavernas still need random drunks and more dancing, stuf going on for it to feel alive. Everyone just kinda sits around not hitting on each other or anything.
There was a awesome tavern mod for Morrowind were ppl were dancing, playing instruments, ppl were rumbling around with a custom "drunk walk". It was awesome and it really felt like a real fantasy taverna. Chaotic
Aw that's a shame still about companions. I'm sure it could've been fixed with a companion vendor or something. Joke. I mean getting a new one/s.

FeelFlow's Avatar


FeelFlow
12.16.2012 , 07:11 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by CelCawdro View Post
The same applies to a number of class stories. But still it's a "choose your ending" choice at the end with little heed payed to the rest of your playthrough. There's a lot of critique about this game, but as far as story goes, it's quality BioWare story unless you hit the level cap. If you truly want KotOR3, I'd recommend reading the books in this era, then playing Jedi Knight followed by Sith Warrior.
Oh I'm playing the game because I love the stories - I intend to experience all classes to the end

Thanks for the tip though!

Vicen's Avatar


Vicen
12.16.2012 , 07:29 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by siegedeluxe View Post
The reason why this game is loosing subs is because they focused too much on story and not enough on other elements that MMO's have (emotes, intractable objects, mini games, exploration). Not to mention the amount of bugs (some of which has been since BETA), and servers that keeps crashing and lagging people off the game world.

EA / BioWare believe that people are poor and the sole reason why they lost people, but this is not the case. Your game is lacking soul. Your customer service is horrible and you only talk once it has been approved by the PR department.
Story has nothing to do with this game being less then par. IT has everything to do with tons of bugs , horrible engine, barely any world pvp on pvp servers and a multitude of other things. If this game didnt have the story it did now half if not more people would be gone.
Swooping...is...bad...

Revanchis's Avatar


Revanchis
12.16.2012 , 07:48 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by siegedeluxe View Post
The reason why this game is loosing subs is because they focused too much on story and not enough on other elements that MMO's have (emotes, intractable objects, mini games, exploration). Not to mention the amount of bugs (some of which has been since BETA), and servers that keeps crashing and lagging people off the game world.

EA / BioWare believe that people are poor and the sole reason why they lost people, but this is not the case. Your game is lacking soul. Your customer service is horrible and you only talk once it has been approved by the PR department.
Those wouldn't be important were this game an RPG. Then they could have cut all those useless MMO features and actually fleshed out the companions, the world, and the story.

The game's story is great for an MMO, but lacking when compared to a proper RPG.

Revanchis's Avatar


Revanchis
12.17.2012 , 12:45 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by FeelFlow View Post
It's really interesting that you get two really different perspectives on the game from the MMO and RPG crowd.

Essentially, I think that BW thought that they could marry both elements but (arguably) weren't able to. It was too big an undertaking in the end, I bet. The parts just wouldn't mesh together properly leaving a game that didn't satisfy both MMO and RPG fans.

I still love the stories in the game though - however, you can see what it could've been if it had been a true successor to KOTOR. Ah well.
Yes, very much so. You mostly hear from MMO fans around here, and they make this game out to be 100% an RPG, but form the opposite perspective it's just as much of a hybrid.

While it was interesting experiment I gladly hope they don't try to fuse the two genres again. I'd rather advoid playing any more MMOs.

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
12.17.2012 , 01:18 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by FeelFlow View Post
...Essentially, SWTOR should've been the successor to KOTOR.

Hindsight is always a great thing and it's easy to see why SWTOR was made as an MMO. When it was started, WoW was booming and making tonnes of cash per month. EA wanted their own WoW, I'm sure!

Whatever the case, it now is very clear that the game would've been far better as an RPG launching with:

Two player characters Sith and Jedi with a choice if you want to go down either the Knight/Warrior or Consular/Inquisitor paths (much like KOTOR).

Each side would have the choice of two different stories (i.e. essentially the x4 Jedi/Sith stories that we have in-game) each depending on what path you choose.

Probably less incidental quests i.e. just the class quests and the main planet story thread quests.

The current Flashpoints would be like some of the class quest instances.

Probably less planets (an RPG has less $ development budget) and more a linear story-driven scripted progression through them with real choices and consequences.

If the game went well, then extra class stories (Smuggler & Bounty Hunter) and extensions to your class quests.

I'm saying this as the story is bar far the best part of the game. I don't think that SWTOR ever got credit for it and sadly - in retrospect - the story can't shine in an MMO. I think it would've done in an RPG.
But.... then i couldnt have played the amazing Imperial agent storyline! or the bounty hunter! or the smuggler! or the trooper!
All of which have far better story than the jedi/sith ones...
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