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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
12.15.2012 , 01:19 PM | #81
Also I'd like to say that I feel we are running this series a little short, I know we'll have a finals tournament, but many more combatants could be brought up and used in a battle.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 01:39 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Also I'd like to say that I feel we are running this series a little short, I know we'll have a finals tournament, but many more combatants could be brought up and used in a battle.
I agree. I'm hoping we'll be seeing a second series of Kaggath battles after the tournament, so who knows?

Would really love to see King Adas.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 01:52 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
On the other hand the Galactic Republic of Great War had 300 years of peace to develop their military, and when the Sith turned up the outcome was the same, if not more devastating. If the Sith Empire had fought the Republic of the Clone Wars - the Republic would have lost.
No one's disagreeing with you on that one. The point they are making is that numbers don't matter because 1 Sith = 100 stormtroopers (as a matter of opinion) and so the Sith overcome that disadvantage - seems a valid argument to me.

(as for the 501st at the Jedi Temple - another invalid argument I'm afraid. 501st > Average Jedi/Padawans however Sith & Sith Troopers > 501st.)
Okay, so if 1 Sith = 100 Stormtroopers then they would need( by rough estimation) a good ten thousand Sith to fight the Stormtroopers. That's a rough estimation of course. But what about Dark Troopers? Shadow Guard? Sovereign Protectors? Or the other elite Special Forces?

The way I see it. 1 Phase 1 Dark Trooper = 1 Sith Acolyte. 1 Phase 2 Dark Trooper = a small group of Sith. 1 Phase 3 Dark Trooper = a small battalion of Sith.

(Another rough estimation so bear with me) 1 Shadow Guard = a couple Acolytes. 1 Sovereign Protector = a group of Sith, possibly the average Sith Lord.

GE Special Forces > SE Special Forces (not including Sith. This revolves around elite Stormtrooper corps and elite Imperial Trooper corps)

Now for Space superiority. GE has it. Some 20,000 ISD's, a couple dozen SSD's, some of the most powerful anti-fighter platforms ever seen, a couple thousand ISD 2.0's. Now this, coupled with the production capabilities of KDY shipyards and other shipyards allows the GE to produce Star Destroyers on a large scale.

Sure the SE had a couple thousand years to build an armada, but they don't have the production capabilities that the GE has. The GE has the largest military on record (I believe).

I think the SE is going to put up a good fight, mostly due to their Sith, but the sheer numbers and firepower (which is what the GE military is famous for) will win the day.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.15.2012 , 02:25 PM | #84
A quick question on the rule of technology, do you mean that the technology would be of the same level in terms of what it can do? Or do you mean that the SE would have access to the same weapons/equipment as the GE? Cause the GE, has some pretty powerful weapons for their troopers and their walkers which wouldn't be available to them in their time.

Not to mention the SDs are powered by a 1-a2b solar ionization reactor, pretty much a mini sun. Which wasn't available till the Sienar Fleet Systems created it in the GCW era for the SDs.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 02:31 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
A quick question on the rule of technology, do you mean that the technology would be of the same level in terms of what it can do? Or do you mean that the SE would have access to the same weapons/equipment as the GE? Cause the GE, has some pretty powerful weapons for their troopers and their walkers.

Not to mention the SDs are powered by a 1-a2b solar ionization reactor, pretty much a mini sun. Which wasn't available till the Sienar Fleet Systems created it in the GCW era for the SDs.
I think it means weapons do the same damage and such. It wouldn't be very "real" if the SE had access to all of the GE's stuff.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.15.2012 , 02:42 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I think it means weapons do the same damage and such. It wouldn't be very "real" if the SE had access to all of the GE's stuff.
So then the differences would be, how they are made then? That seems to me kinda moot then, if all the weapons do the same damage. Or is it like in tiers of damage to where a blaster rifle does the same damage as a blaster rifle, but not the same damage as say a heavy rifle?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 02:48 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
So then the differences would be, how they are made then? That seems to me kinda moot then, if all the weapons do the same damage. Or is it like in tiers of damage to where a blaster rifle does the same damage as a blaster rifle, but not the same damage as say a heavy rifle?
I don't know. I would like to see some clarification on this. Maybe just make all of the damage the same (SE blaster rifle damage=GE blaster rifle damage and so on and so forth), and then rely on who has more firepower. In that sense, the GE has the advantage.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.15.2012 , 03:29 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
You realise 20,000 is the biggest fleet on record? we have no indication whatsoever that the SE had anything like those kinds of numbers, congratulations they had a thousand years to make ships, in their extremely small space, with a few places to construct ships, the empire had a galaxy sized shipyard, that was churning out SDs to the point where in the space of 19 years just one organization managed to build 20,000 Imperial I class Star Destroyers before it became obsolete and then managed in the few years before Endor to build around a quarter of that number in Imperial II class SDs which were much better, then the Interdictors, then the Super Star Destroyers which they had at least thirty of, they also had the most powerful assemblage of ships ever seen, the Death Squadron, that obliterated a fleet of 40 Rebel ships, with one SSD and six IMP II classes.

You also forget the fact that the Empire was just the Galactic Republic with a new name, the Republic had a thousand year strong infrastructure building period after the massive devastation that was the New Sith Wars.

Kuat Drive Yards became a monster corporation and the Republic during the Clone Wars managed to mount a fleet of 15,000 in the space of three years.

The Sith Empire had neither the means or the raw resources of the galaxy to build anything near that size of a fleet, the Republic fleet had a fleet of relatively the same size in the space of three hundred years, you use the thousand years number as if that means because they had more time = bigger fleet, this as I have proven, is flatly false.
The space in which the SE hid for a thousand years wasn't THAT small. The place was just unknown to the Republic.

You mention that the GE is just the new Republic (who had been around for thousands of years). This doesn't mean much. They weren't anticipating a war all that time. The SE spent a thousand years building for the purpose of conquering.

Again with the specifics. You're pulling out all this precise info on the GE and you are assuming that the SE has nothing of the sort. You're implying that because we don't know how big the SE fleet is that it must not be as big as the GE's fleet. That's not correct logic. Here's what we do know about the SE fleet:

Don't misunderstand me: I think that the GE's fleet is likely larger then the SE's fleet. In that since I agree with you. But to say that the GE fleet is WAY larger then the SE's fleet isn't canon-supported.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.15.2012 , 03:42 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Okay, so if 1 Sith = 100 Stormtroopers then they would need( by rough estimation) a good ten thousand Sith to fight the Stormtroopers. That's a rough estimation of course. But what about Dark Troopers? Shadow Guard? Sovereign Protectors? Or the other elite Special Forces?

The way I see it. 1 Phase 1 Dark Trooper = 1 Sith Acolyte. 1 Phase 2 Dark Trooper = a small group of Sith. 1 Phase 3 Dark Trooper = a small battalion of Sith.

(Another rough estimation so bear with me) 1 Shadow Guard = a couple Acolytes. 1 Sovereign Protector = a group of Sith, possibly the average Sith Lord.

GE Special Forces > SE Special Forces (not including Sith. This revolves around elite Stormtrooper corps and elite Imperial Trooper corps)

Now for Space superiority. GE has it. Some 20,000 ISD's, a couple dozen SSD's, some of the most powerful anti-fighter platforms ever seen, a couple thousand ISD 2.0's. Now this, coupled with the production capabilities of KDY shipyards and other shipyards allows the GE to produce Star Destroyers on a large scale.

Sure the SE had a couple thousand years to build an armada, but they don't have the production capabilities that the GE has. The GE has the largest military on record (I believe).

I think the SE is going to put up a good fight, mostly due to their Sith, but the sheer numbers and firepower (which is what the GE military is famous for) will win the day.
When the 501st killed the Jedi and succeded it was because of complete suprise. Fighting Sith who are excepeting them is gonna be really different.

SE has their own Special Forces.

Let's look at what it took to destroy the Empire: Luke Skywalker. How much more effective will thousands (i think) of Sith do against the GE? Force users are a lot more effective then we're giving them credit.

Really guys, these empires are extremely similar. The only real differences are this:
Sidious > Vitiate
- Vitiate has thousands of Sith
- Sidious's fleet and army is slightly larger

^^ That spells victory for Vitiate. He has thousands of Sith for crying out loud.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 03:43 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
The space in which the SE hid for a thousand years wasn't THAT small. The place was just unknown to the Republic.

You mention that the GE is just the new Republic (who had been around for thousands of years). This doesn't mean much. They weren't anticipating a war all that time. The SE spent a thousand years building for the purpose of conquering.

Again with the specifics. You're pulling out all this precise info on the GE and you are assuming that the SE has nothing of the sort. You're implying that because we don't know how big the SE fleet is that it must not be as big as the GE's fleet. That's not correct logic. Here's what we do know about the SE fleet:

Don't misunderstand me: I think that the GE's fleet is likely larger then the SE's fleet. In that since I agree with you. But to say that the GE fleet is WAY larger then the SE's fleet isn't canon-supported.
You forget that Palpatine was preparing his Empire for the inevitable Yuuzhan Vong invasion, specifically by sending Thrawn to map the Unknown Regions and scout for the "Far Outsiders".

Also, the Republic at the time of the Clone Wars was able to produce a massive fleet to match the Seperatist forces in a relatively short time. Mind you the CIS was preparing for war for a long time and had a pretty large armada. The Galactic Empire further expanded upon the Republic fleet by producing some of the most powerful ships on record. They had 20,000 Star Destroyers and a couple dozen SSD's, plus some of the most powerful anti-fighter platforms available.

The Galactic Empire has the superiority in all but one category. They have superior numbers, superior ships, superior ground forces, but they lack Sith. But I have explained how the Galactic Empire counters the Sith.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus