Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
12.21.2012 , 12:53 PM | #391
On another note to that, Palpatine was breaking down the Senate. He was trying to strip away the power of the people to choose their leaders and become a complete dictatorship. It was because of this that so many Senators would help the Rebellion, openly or in secret. Even after 20yrs, he hadn't completely liquidated the senate as he was still, somehow, bound by Laws and Rules, and needed to get more and more people under his way in order to remove the Senate entirely and complete the change to a new government order.

As such, Palpatine doesn't have the support of all the people in the galaxy. It's mostly just his armies, and during the first half or so of his rule, Palpatine relied on clones to make up the bulk of his forces. It wasn't until after the Rebellion (and Starkiller) started destroying these facilities that he began drafting more and more people into Imperial service. And that, as some may claim, is why we have so many terrible shots in the Original Trilogy.

On a few more things, going back a bit. The idea that the Dread Masters are useless is utterly absurd. Yes, Palps has Battle Meditation. He has great range. He's never had anyone challenge his control before. To believe they can't because he's "The most powerful Sith ever" is ludicrous, and you all know it. And we're also all aware that Palps doesn't actually Achieve that title until After he dies and returns as Reborn Palpatine. As such, the Dread Masters would (assuming they are under Vitiate's command) be a huge advantage for the SE. Seeing as they can defeat entire fleets on their own by crippling or destroying the minds of others with unknowable terror, the havoc they can cause is immeasurable.

Palps is the only defense against the Dread Masters. And when there are still thousands of other Sith to worry about on top of the Sith Emperor himself, there is simply no way for Palps to focus on them and everything else at once, 24/7. The odds in this case are overwhelmingly against Palps. Six Dread Masters. Split into groups of two, three different fleets, attack three sectors at once. What happens? GE gets decimated. Not by power of numbers or force of arms, but by the Force itself.

All these "SpecForce guys can kill Force Users" stuff is pure nonsense. No, I am not saying they can't kill Sith. I'm saying that having multiple types is pointless. Anyone can kill a Force user. I've said it before; Plot and Circumstance can kill Anyone. How soldiers were trained doesn't change from age to age, especially in a universe with a technological loop.

The point of me speaking of Starkiller before was to make it apparent how a singular Force User can cause considerable damage to the GE. Sure, he was stronger than your average Force User. But the fact that, with all these Troopers and SpecForce members and even clones and Palp's ImpGuard, they couldn't stop him. Perhaps not every Sith in the SE is in the same class as Starkiller when it comes to Raw Power, but it doesn't change the fact that the GE simply isn't capable of dealing with potent Force Users, especially not in large numbers. The only reason so many Jedi died was because of Order 66 and it was a sudden change in the Clone Trooper armies. They were a Non-Threat to the Jedi until that instant, so there was no way for their patented precog to warn them, thus most died by surprise or by sheer number.

In this instance, there is no surprise. It's open warfare. GE has a greater number of soldiers and ships. No one disputes that. But one Sith backed by an contingent of Troops beats an army larger than their own. And here, there's likely to be between 2-4 Sith per military force. The GE has no way to compensate. I've seen people go on about the "Black Guard" and all of that stuff. But did they ever stop Galen Marek (Starkiller), Obi-Wan when he was fighting before going into hiding, Luke while he was out saving the galaxy, Kota during all of his time fighting the Empire? No. Just about every time a Jedi or Force User was involved, Palps would send Vader, and then he might send Starkiller. Palps may have a bigger army, but he doesn't have near the number of Individuals capable of dealing with Sith.
CE Owner: ...what? I wanted the music. I like music.
Statement: SGRA's - I support them. Do you have a problem with that, Meatbag?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.21.2012 , 12:59 PM | #392
Quote: Originally Posted by Vacarius View Post
Well fair enough. I'd personally prefer a catagory system (space/land/ability to kill opponent) with weightings assigned to each according to the fight (easier to understand too) but every system will have flaws in what is really just a battle of opinions
I try to make it as comprehensive as possible but this is a good idea, maybe I'll try this out in the Tournament. Now begone! Go place your bets!

And you too Rekai! May I say though that I agree with absolutely everything you said. Especially on the SF front. All those points were added to the overall score.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.21.2012 , 01:06 PM | #393
You know I was gonna counter point, but am not wanting to deal with this anymore so lets all just stop posting here.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Tahrl's Avatar


Tahrl
12.21.2012 , 03:03 PM | #394
Can Darth Vader command men and fleets, assuming he doesn't personally engage in battle? I mean, I would already give this to Sidious and the Galactic Empire, but with the likes of Thrawn and Vader? Psht. It wouldn't even be a competition.

One-on-One: Vitiate is immensely powerful in Sith Magics and rituals. He also absorbed the life force of an entire planet. But - and this is important - Sidious is the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. That means that he is stronger than Vitiate, even without sucking the life out of an entire planet. Sidious is so far ahead of Vitiate in terms of power, it's not even funny.

Fleets: The Galactic Empire has a far larger fleet. I won't go into too much detail, plenty of others have, even so far as the first page. But the Empire has a far larger, far better equipped and far better commanded fleet (even more so if we assume Vader and Thrawn are allowed to pitch in).

Ground Forces: Like the fleets, the Galactic Empire has a far more numerous, better equipped ground force and as far as I'm concerned this would normally give them the win. However, the Sith Empire has an abundance of Force Users fighting among them and commanding them. That is a big game changer. Against your average Imperial force - in a ground war - I have to hand the conflict to the Sith Empire. The Force and a Lightsaber are just too big an ally. When it comes down to the Galactic Empires elite, though (see: Stormtroopers, 501st, Imperial Guard) the Galactic Empire comes back in a whole new way.

Stormtroopers are meant to be insanely skilled. They only miss because the movies require them too. And the 501st are Vaders personal legion. Many of them were around in the Clone Wars and would have iced their fair share of Jedi. I'm gonna have to say ground-wise they are fairly even.

Vehicles: Galactic Empire wins. I have yet to see anything the Galactic Empire possess that could trump an AT-AT one-on-one in a ground conflict. Their walkers and tanks are inferior. Less numerous.

Overall: Sidious wins. His forces are better equipped than the Sith Empires forces, they are more numerous, they are better lead. The Galactic Empire is much more stable than the Sith Empire thanks to the Rule of Two which results in a marked decrease in Machiavellian Sith underlings. His fleets totally outstrip the Sith Empires, even including the Ascendant Spear. And if it ever came down to a duel between the two, Vitiate would learn to fear Sidious more than death as the latter throws the former around like a rag doll.
"Weakling! You will never reach your potential if you falter at the slightest obstacle. Beyond that wall lies your destiny. Beyond that wall lies the full power of the dark side. If you do not have the strength to reach it, then you do not deserve to become a Sith sorcerer!"

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.22.2012 , 06:00 AM | #395
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Because character statements are canon, simply put, we know as a matter of fact that the Sith war machine had been halted in it's tracks once the Republic got it's act together, they even pushed the Empire right back to Korriban, the Seat of the Empire, it took Malgus and others pulling a pincer movement to force the Republic back a few systems, the Empire got blitzed before the Republic stopped, then eventually the Empire(Revan) made the Sacking of Coruscant and the Treaty happen.

The Republic definitely were holding their ground in the mid-rim, the only reason the Empire got all those extra systems is because they'd taken the Republic's capital hostage and 'forced the ink on the paper', to coin the phrase.
You might be right, but i had a clear notion from the holonet vids that while that was the position of the republic, it wasnt nearly as sustainable as you are trying to make us belive. I belive it is stated somewhere that if the treaty didnt happen, the republic might have fallen in a matter of time.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.22.2012 , 06:06 AM | #396
THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED
Victor: Sith Emperor

Please turn your attention to the Kaggath Tournament

That is all.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
12.22.2012 , 08:50 AM | #397
Stupidest Kaggath outcome yet. Honestly, this just makes a joke of the whole exercise. Next Kaggath, C2N2 the ship droid defeats EU Luke Skywalker.