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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.19.2012 , 07:27 PM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
As for the heavy walkers and Dark Troopers you named: the SE has similar stuff. We've seen Imperial Tanks before. We've seen super-soldiers (Power Guards) and colassal war droids. The Empires are very similar except the GE is a bit bigger and the SE has Sith.
Dark Troopers>Power Guard
GE Walkers>SE Walkers

The Powerguards can't even compare to the Dark Troopers and nothing the SE brings can compare to the AT-AT, or other heavy vehicles the Galactic Empire can bring. And the Sith Empire can't build vehicles or ships nearly as fast as the Galactic Empire. The Sith Empire doesn't have nearly the same amount of manpower the Galactic Empire has.

The Galactic Empire is superior to the Sith Empire in every way. Even the Sith don't give the SE enough manpower to overwhelm the Galactic Empire.
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"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.19.2012 , 07:27 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Actually, that's not the map I was talking about. I'm unsure my 7/4 ratio is exact, but that's what I remember. I'd watch the video again, but it won't work for me. Could someone else watch the Battle of Bothuwai video and back me up on this?

As for the SE's soldier's experience, I was talking about there experience prior to fighting the Great Galactic War. The war was about 20-30 years long I think, and it would have created some wicked veterans. So the SE's soldiers are by no means green.
Ya I know what map your saying, its in the end right? Ya but remember that was during the early years, the Republic gained that back.

That video also shows the incompetence of the SE leaders, not to say that the GE leaders aren't incompetent at times but...the SE literally just threw waves and waves of men at the enemy which consisted of a jedi master, 7 dozen jedi knights and 4,000 Republic troops vs 50,000 SE troops...and won thus the SE had to call reinforcements to help.

So 1 Master + 49 knights + 4,000 Troops= 4,050 total

against

50,000 SE Troops, the Spartans would be proud of the Republic Forces.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 07:29 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
I think you mean this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31fsYR9TWo

3:30 approximately. If we're going by that though, it throws a lot of other factors into question - and as we see from the game, conquest doesn't mean immediate 100% loyalty. Plus, blitzkreig tactics are great for overwhelming an enemy, but you usually wind up with an inability to hold those new territories. The game has laid out pretty well that even with the reduced territories following the Treaty, the Sith Empire was struggling to hold its new territories.

I think it would be safer and easier for the purpose of the thread to stick with the rough size constraints of the Sith Empire at roughly the last months of the Treaty of Coruscant - the setting members are most familiar with. But I'm not adjudicator, so that's just my suggestion.
I don't understand why we can't just take the map for what it is: the SE controled 7/11 (or 63.6 percent) of the galaxy.

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 07:33 PM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I don't understand why we can't just take the map for what it is: the SE controled 7/11 (or 63.6 percent) of the galaxy.
Because there are a lot more factors involved then that that require scrutiny. The context of the overarching storyline tells us that yes the Sith took the territory but couldn't hold it, and internal Sith politics also were different then, which in turns affects the arguments for the Kaggath.

Yes, the Sith Empire conquered approximately 60% of the galaxy, but it couldn't control it. Those territories fell quickly to civil wars, insurrections and Republic counter-strikes. It's not an accurate model of the true power the Sith Empire could extend.
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 07:36 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Ya I know what map your saying, its in the end right? Ya but remember that was during the early years, the Republic gained that back.

That video also shows the incompetence of the SE leaders, not to say that the GE leaders aren't incompetent at times but...the SE literally just threw waves and waves of men at the enemy which consisted of a jedi knight, 7 dozen jedi knights and 4,000 Republic troops vs 50,000 SE troops...and won thus the SE had to call reinforcements to help.
Remember: the Kaggath combatants are at their height of power. So whenever the SE controlled the most land, that'd be the structure they enter the Kaggath with.

You're right, it was a slopy attack on the SE's part. But we've seen many armies in Star Wars do the same. We've also seen briliant attacks on the SE's part though.... like the one with which they conquered a nice piece of the galaxy at the begining of the Great Galactic War. Master Gnost-Dural himself stated it was briliant.

But I need not defend the SE in this since. After all: the GE was beated in a battle with Ewoks....

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 07:38 PM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Because there are a lot more factors involved then that that require scrutiny. The context of the overarching storyline tells us that yes the Sith took the territory but couldn't hold it, and internal Sith politics also were different then, which in turns affects the arguments for the Kaggath.

Yes, the Sith Empire conquered approximately 60% of the galaxy, but it couldn't control it. Those territories fell quickly to civil wars, insurrections and Republic counter-strikes. It's not an accurate model of the true power the Sith Empire could extend.
Those Republic "counter-strikes" wouldn't happen 'cause the Republic doesn't exist in this Kaggath.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 07:41 PM | #277
I give up. I can't debate against everybody.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.19.2012 , 07:42 PM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Remember: the Kaggath combatants are at their height of power. So whenever the SE controlled the most land, that'd be the structure they enter the Kaggath with.

You're right, it was a slopy attack on the SE's part. But we've seen many armies in Star Wars do the same. We've also seen briliant attacks on the SE's part though.... like the one with which they conquered a nice piece of the galaxy at the begining of the Great Galactic War. Master Gnost-Dural himself stated it was briliant.

But I need not defend the SE in this since. After all: the GE was beated in a battle with Ewoks....
Yes because the Ewoks didn't have help from Rebel forces, Chewie didn't hijack an AT-ST and they were fighting against the 501st in their prime when by the Battle of Endor they would be well past their prime due to their fast aging.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 07:42 PM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Remember: the Kaggath combatants are at their height of power. So whenever the SE controlled the most land, that'd be the structure they enter the Kaggath with.

You're right, it was a slopy attack on the SE's part. But we've seen many armies in Star Wars do the same. We've also seen briliant attacks on the SE's part though.... like the one with which they conquered a nice piece of the galaxy at the begining of the Great Galactic War. Master Gnost-Dural himself stated it was briliant.

But I need not defend the SE in this since. After all: the GE was beated in a battle with Ewoks....
Ewoks is probably the most over-used fallback argument in Star Wars. The 501st were well past their prime, significantly reduced in number compared to that of any other legion (they were the only 'pure' legion left iirc), and completely caught off-guard against superior numbers. Plus, there's the rescaling of power for plot purposes, which is another massive factor. The 501st were weak only because they had to lose for the storyline. Blame Lucas for that one.

As for the Kaggath height of power rule that refers to the combatants themselves rather then their forces, doesn't it? The Emperor grew more powerful as the war re-ignited, as he fed on their deaths?

If that's the case, then the Sith are at a massive disadvantage, because the Emperor's own power was built on the corpses of his forces. Palpatine, however, was at his peak right before Endor, where the Empire was still a powerhouse driven by his will.
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Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.19.2012 , 07:44 PM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Remember: the Kaggath combatants are at their height of power. So whenever the SE controlled the most land, that'd be the structure they enter the Kaggath with.
That's an excellent point. Now that I think about it though, who get which planets? I know that spunds strange, but if the SE controlled about 70% of the galaxy, but the GE controlled then entire galaxy (basically) who has the planets over lapped?

Just thought I'd ask. I've been reading these and thought it might help the debate.
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