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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.17.2012 , 11:33 AM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Oh lord, how on earth did he fit a super star destroyer underneath his palace!? No matter, it seems anything is possible in the post-ROTJ period But are you sure that Sidious could just hop on it or escape? - Wookieepedia seems to provide conflicting sources to its purpose...

Still, unless the SE are winning the war I see now that a sacking of Coruscant would be difficult given the vastness of the Imperial Fleet. However if the Ascendant Spear is striking at Imperial worlds across the galaxy, especially ship yards (which it would if they have any brains) this would leave Coruscant more open to attack and brainwashing Mara Jade would definitely give them an edge.

Any idea how many SDs and SSDs normally orbited Coruscant?

Well, the Dark Council aren't strictly in the battle. They can only govern the Empire.

Rules are rules
Remember when the CIS attacked Coruscant? The battle would go something like that. The Seperatist fleet was utterly crushed when the Republic fleet arrived. Now the Galactic Empire has bigger and badder ships and can remove the SE's possibility for escape with interdictor ships. The Galactic Empire could devote a massive fleet to return to Coruscant, a fleet that would dwarf the SE's fleet.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.17.2012 , 11:36 AM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Remember when the CIS attacked Coruscant? The battle would go something like that. The Seperatist fleet was utterly crushed when the Republic fleet arrived. Now the Galactic Empire has bigger and badder ships and can remove the SE's possibility for escape with interdictor ships. The Galactic Empire could devote a massive fleet to return to Coruscant, a fleet that would dwarf the SE's fleet.
Bigger and badder - matter opinion

Except like I said, what if the GE fleet was crippled and scattered? The Separatists were losing the war and still had enough time to capture the Chancellor. So if they GE fleet was distracted they would have enough time to orbitally bombard the Imperial Palace, which would probably take a matter of minutes.

EDIT: All that really matters is how many ships are present on Coruscant - the entire GE fleet isn't going to get there in time to rescue Sidious - especially if they were using jammers.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.17.2012 , 11:45 AM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Bigger and badder - matter opinion

Except like I said, what if the GE fleet was crippled and scattered? The Separatists were losing the war and still had enough time to capture the Chancellor. So if they GE fleet was distracted they would have enough time to orbitally bombard the Imperial Palace, which would probably take a matter of minutes.

EDIT: All that really matters is how many ships are present on Coruscant - the entire GE fleet isn't going to get their in time to rescue Sidious.
I think it would depend on Sidious' farsight. We know the Lusankya is there and Sidious has incredible Farsight abilities. He could see the SE fleet invade Coruscant and devote a sizable force to defend it. This is subjective of course as we don't know if Sidious would see the invasion. His Farsight abilities are quite remarkable, so I think him seeing the SE invasion would be a possibility.

We should also remember that Coruscant has many levels, so Sidious could descend down to the lower levels or even go in the secret bunker (from the old Clone Wars series if that's still canon). Or he could just escape in the Lusankya.

Edit: And yes, the Star Destroyers are bigger and badder compared to the Venator cruisers. The SSD's are even better.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
12.17.2012 , 12:08 PM | #194
Apparently Beni made his mind up about this fight before he even started the thread. It doesn't seem to matter that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, the best tactician the Sith have ever seen or the most successful manipulator in the history of the galaxy. Nor does it matter that the Galactic Empire under Sidious had vastly more resources, more and better ships, a much bigger army, etc. Vitiate waves magic wand, wins Kaggath.

Vitiate would have virtually no chance in this. Sidious is a more power Sith and a superior leader in every way. Sidious has more resources and a better army. There is no way someone objectively looks at this and gives Vitiate a chance in hell.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.17.2012 , 12:27 PM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I think it would depend on Sidious' farsight. We know the Lusankya is there and Sidious has incredible Farsight abilities. He could see the SE fleet invade Coruscant and devote a sizable force to defend it. This is subjective of course as we don't know if Sidious would see the invasion. His Farsight abilities are quite remarkable, so I think him seeing the SE invasion would be a possibility.

We should also remember that Coruscant has many levels, so Sidious could descend down to the lower levels or even go in the secret bunker (from the old Clone Wars series if that's still canon). Or he could just escape in the Lusankya.

Edit: And yes, the Star Destroyers are bigger and badder compared to the Venator cruisers. The SSD's are even better.
(Oh I thought by bigger and badder you meant the SE forces...)

Good point, something of a stalemate is starting here. The only way I see either party emerging victorious is if one of them amasses and fleet and attacks their opponents capital - with the success or failure depending on how well they do in the overall conflict.

If the GE invade Dromund Kaas they'd have to deactivate the planetary shields first to orbitally bombard it. Which would be difficult because they know next to nothing about Dromund Kaas - even Imperial Intelligence would find it hard to pull off. So a ground invasion is more likely. But thats partially irrelevant as the Emperor will be residing in his invisible, undetectable space fortress, which the GE will have no knowledge of. So he can just wait for the Interdictors to leave or turn off in order to escape, or wait for reinforcements to arrive - or just watch and laugh

If the SE invade Coruscant they will probably be confronted with several SDs and SDDs and possibly an even bigger fleet if Sidious predicted the attack. They can quite easily deactivate the planetary shields however so all they have to do is get in position to orbitally bombard the Imperial Palace. However, this is no easy feat if they do not have the element of surprise, and even if they do they will need superior numbers to overwhelm the fleet before reinforcements arrive (but then they can signal jam so not too much of a problem). However they have no gravity well generators to my knowledge so Sidious could jump ship on the Lusankya (although the SE fleet could destroy it) or he could just hide in a bunker of some sort which I'm sure he has. And then wait for the GE fleet to arrive and destroy the attackers.

So both kinda end in failure, although TBO the GE has more of a chance as if they somehow gained knowledge of the Emperor's fortress they could find it. There's a thought - anyone played the JK storyline know how the JK found the Emperor's fortress?
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
Apparently Beni made his mind up about this fight before he even started the thread. It doesn't seem to matter that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, the best tactician the Sith have ever seen or the most successful manipulator in the history of the galaxy. Nor does it matter that the Galactic Empire under Sidious had vastly more resources, more and better ships, a much bigger army, etc. Vitiate waves magic wand, wins Kaggath.

Vitiate would have virtually no chance in this. Sidious is a more power Sith and a superior leader in every way. Sidious has more resources and a better army. There is no way someone objectively looks at this and gives Vitiate a chance in hell.
I wonder how the Rebellion beat him then, guess they found a magic wand somewhere...

It seems to be your being a tad bit hypocritical but I'd rather debate the subject rather than make it personal.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.17.2012 , 12:55 PM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I wonder how the Rebellion beat him then, guess they found a magic wand somewhere...

It seems to be your being a tad bit hypocritical but I'd rather debate the subject rather than make it personal.
The Rebellion was getting crushed, it wasn't until they got a hold of more resources(Mon Calamari ships, A-wings, B-wings, weapons etc) were they able to actually put up a much better fight. By the time they got all their new stuff, they weren't a rag-tag fighting force anymore. Being that they

1. Had experience from fighting, even a few being vets from the Clone Wars.

2. Had capable tacticians both of their own and from the Empire for those that defected.

3. They were using full blown military ships and having some pretty good equipment for ground troops, and their own special forces.

So by the end of it, the Rebellion was a pretty sizable threat. You actually get a glimpse of that on Hoth, what rag-tag fighting force would be able to get their hands on a shield generator and a V-150 anti-orbital ion cannon?

The ion cannon alone cost 1.5mil credits new, and 1mil used.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.17.2012 , 01:16 PM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
The Rebellion was getting crushed, it wasn't until they got a hold of more resources(Mon Calamari ships, A-wings, B-wings, weapons etc) were they able to actually put up a much better fight. By the time they got all their new stuff, they weren't a rag-tag fighting force anymore. Being that they

1. Had experience from fighting, even a few being vets from the Clone Wars.

2. Had capable tacticians both of their own and from the Empire for those that defected.

3. They were using full blown military ships and having some pretty good equipment for ground troops, and their own special forces.

So by the end of it, the Rebellion was a pretty sizable threat. You actually get a glimpse of that on Hoth, what rag-tag fighting force would be able to get their hands on a shield generator and a V-150 anti-orbital ion cannon?

The ion cannon alone cost 1.5mil credits new, and 1mil used.
I understand, but the other poster seemed to be implying Sidious was invincible. IMO the Sith Empire is a stronger force than the Rebel Alliance, would you disagree? (Not saying that means the SE would win though, they lack the gureilla tactics that were so effective against the Empire and of course, the good guys)

But lets get back on topic... how is Sidious going to kill Vitiate and vice versa?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.17.2012 , 01:27 PM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I understand, but the other poster seemed to be implying Sidious was invincible. IMO the Sith Empire is a stronger force than the Rebel Alliance, would you disagree? (Not saying that means the SE would win though, they lack the gureilla tactics that were so effective against the Empire and of course, the good guys)

But lets get back on topic... how is Sidious going to kill Vitiate and vice versa?
Pre or Post Hoth? If its Pre-Hoth then yes the SE would just due to huge numbers and ships, I would have to look up Pre Hoth to see if they had anything, so for now would go for the SE. Post-Hoth though? No the RA was in full swing by then.

As to how the battle would go out, its been kinda overdone and stated millions of times in this thread.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.17.2012 , 01:28 PM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But lets get back on topic... how is Sidious going to kill Vitiate and vice versa?
I think we can all agree that Vitiate can't kill Sidious. So the real question is, how does Sidious kill Vitiate?

Not too difficult for the great Emperor. The hardest part is luring Vitiate out of hiding. So how does he do that?
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
12.17.2012 , 01:36 PM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I wonder how the Rebellion beat him then, guess they found a magic wand somewhere...

It seems to be your being a tad bit hypocritical but I'd rather debate the subject rather than make it personal.
Luke Skywalker = magic wand. If the Sith Empire had Luke Skywalker, I would pick them over Sidious.

The Sith Empire is not some Rebellion that (A) has the sympathy of the people and (B) can sit in the shadows. These are two immense empires that would be battling it out on a galactic scale in a seemingly open war, not an empire fighting an insurgency, which is what the rebellion was. The Sith Empire couldn't even beat the Republic, which was pretty damn weak in the TOR era. And you really expect them to defeat the Galactic Empire, which is many times stronger with far more resources.

As for how the Republic found the Emperor's fortress...
Spoiler


I have to conclude Sidious would be able to discover this for himself. He wouldn't even bother with a direct confrontation. Just blow it out of the sky.