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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.15.2012 , 06:38 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Tractor Beam? It might be able to maneuver away from the tractor beams, but the Executor and other Star Destroyers have quite a few tractor beams. And the Spear is bigger than the Falcon so it won't be as maneuverable as the Falcon.

It may be able to do some damage, but Death Squadron would handle the Spear just fine, imo.
Good point, however I think the Spear could avoid/escape the tractor beam long enough to destroy it. And if any other ship tried to use theirs they would be blown to pieces with a couple of shots. Only a lunatic would use a weapon on the Spear that pulls it in close range and keeps it there. Most likely they'd be running away and keeping their distance That's a point, Death Squadron would keep their distance - probably having faith in the Executor to take the Spear out personally, or at least keep it busy so they could move back in. However the SE fleet could keep them at bay once they flee.

This may not seem such a major argument here in the big picture. But consider that if the Spear destroys the Executor, it will be impossible to stop by conventional means (boarding party etc will be the only way to take it down) And the same applies for the Executor if it wins.

Hey, another thought. Put the Dread Masters on the Ascendant Spear! Ultimate combination!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.15.2012 , 06:48 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Good point, however I think the Spear could avoid/escape the tractor beam long enough to destroy it. And if any other ship tried to use theirs they would be blown to pieces with a couple of shots. Only a lunatic would use a weapon on the Spear that pulls it in close range and keeps it there. Most likely they'd be running away and keeping their distance That's a point, Death Squadron would keep their distance - probably having faith in the Executor to take the Spear out personally, or at least keep it busy so they could move back in. However the SE fleet could keep them at bay once they flee.

This may not seem such a major argument here in the big picture. But consider that if the Spear destroys the Executor, it will be impossible to stop by conventional means (boarding party etc will be the only way to take it down) And the same applies for the Executor if it wins.

Hey, another thought. Put the Dread Masters on the Ascendant Spear! Ultimate combination!
That's a good point, but I think Death Squadron would take a more active approach to the battle.

I wouldn't say losing the Executor is that big of a loss. The Galactic Empire has quite a few Executor-class SSD's.

I don't know how effective the Dread Master's fear abilities would be against Sidious' Battle Meditation. The will of the Dread Masters vs. the will of the greatest Sith Lord ever!
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.15.2012 , 06:53 PM | #113
Does the Spear even have any stats on what it carries? Cause from what I looked up, its bare bones and if we go by that its modified from a Terminus-class destroyer, it gets utterly destroyed total its fighter complement is only 16. Its fast yes, but only in hyperspace travel how fast is it combat wise?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
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Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

WillDad's Avatar


WillDad
12.15.2012 , 07:06 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post

The G-Empire can only do so much with Stormtroopers and Walkers. Without Vader to counter the Force Users, they'll get decimated. And without Super Weapons, well...that might actually make the battle last longer, since the Sith Empire has about five times as many Super Weapons as the G-Empire ever did.
I cant remember the name of it, but Sidious had a giant complex in the middle of a bunch of Black Holes, that was completely dedicated to creating super weapons. He had a ton of them in this area (including a mini Death Star). However, this doesnt matter as Superweapons are out. I give it to Emperor Palpatine. Most powerful Canon Sith ever. He has thousands of troops, a giant fleet, a super apprentice (well, maybe not, but that doesnt really matter, Vaders still powerful). Palps was a super manipulator (he probably manipulated Plagueis for years before he drugged and killed him), plus he was able to defeat 4 Jedi Council members (face it, prbly the only reason he didnt just wipe the floor with them was cause he needed Anakin as an apprentice).
Now, we look at Vitiate, he may have had many Hands, Voices, and a Wrath, he could live for thousands of years, but Beni has said that once theyre dead, theyre dead. vs Sidious, in a 1 on 1 fight, Sidious' Force Lightning, plus knowledge of many lightsaber styles, would give him an obvious advantage. He could also make up Force Abilities as he pleased, and he had the ability to create Force Storms and Black Holes.
My vote goes to Sidious. Not quite hands down, but close.
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GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.15.2012 , 07:29 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
There is a major factor you are forgetting here - Jedi. This pratically puts a Sith invasion force on par with a Republic force as they have Jedi to meet the Sith. However in this instance Sidious does not have such an advantage.

And don't forget everyone, the Sith Emperor has the Emperor's Guard

How does the Emperor's Guard match up against Shadow Troopers/Shadow Guard/Imperial Guard I wonder?
Probably fairly evenly matched, quite a few of Sidious's Guard would have been capable of taking down or seriously slowing down a Jedi in a 1 vs 1.

Galen Marek, was trained by Darth Vader, and was ridiculously gifted with the Force, I don't think a run of the mill Sith in the Sith Empire could have done nearly as well.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.15.2012 , 07:40 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Probably fairly evenly matched, quite a few of Sidious's Guard would have been capable of taking down or seriously slowing down a Jedi in a 1 vs 1.

Galen Marek, was trained by Darth Vader, and was ridiculously gifted with the Force, I don't think a run of the mill Sith in the Sith Empire could have done nearly as well.
Nope, especially not against a Shadow or Soveregin Protector.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.15.2012 , 08:33 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Nope, especially not against a Shadow or Soveregin Protector.
You're seriously underestimating Palpatine's Royal Guards...

Another fact, a key thing to realize is that like most TIEs, Sith Empire's Star Fighters didn't really have any shielding.

Near the time of Return of the Jedi, the Empire developed the TIE Defender, which had shields and hyperdrives, these fighters could go head to head against a B-Wing, yet were about as maneuverable as an A-Wing.

Sorry, but if we want to drag space combat back into this, the Sith Empire is just simply outmatched.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.15.2012 , 08:41 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
You're seriously underestimating Palpatine's Royal Guards...

Another fact, a key thing to realize is that like most TIEs, Sith Empire's Star Fighters didn't really have any shielding.

Near the time of Return of the Jedi, the Empire developed the TIE Defender, which had shields and hyperdrives, these fighters could go head to head against a B-Wing, yet were about as maneuverable as an A-Wing.

Sorry, but if we want to drag space combat back into this, the Sith Empire is just simply outmatched.
?? When did I underestimate Palpatine's Guard? The Shadow Guard and Soveregin are apart of his Guard.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

gibmachine's Avatar


gibmachine
12.15.2012 , 09:55 PM | #119
So has anyone considered Fatality and its cargo? Canonically it was under SE's control and going by what HK-51 tells the players, if the HKs were activated (and remember, there was an entire legion of them inside), they would win the war in a matter of few years simply by assassinating key players. As powerful as Palpatine is, I doubt he could do much after every high-ranking commander got blown up.
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StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.16.2012 , 03:35 AM | #120
Question: Are we including the ability for both sides to potentially increase the size of their forces by production and conscription or are we going off what they had at the height of their power and then they have only that to work with?

If the first, then Sidious wins by sheer attrition, 1 sith > 100 troopers but Sidious can replace troopers faster. On top of this, I feel (baring some special mass production on the part of the SE ala Star Forge) the GE does have the edge in naval production. Sidious, as long as he plays it smart, can just wear down the SE and slowly beat it to death.

If the second, the odds are hugely evened. The GE's Quantity over Quality is now hampered and the SE sith will quickly start to take their toll. As long as the SE keeps the fighting spread out (preventing the GE from bringing several SSD's or a large fleet of SD I's and II's to bear) the SE's better Quality in terms of Sith and troops will win. I can also see Sith from the SE boarding GE ships and capturing them in many smaller engagements. We see far more instances of boarding action in SWTOR, and with Sith that would count hugely in the SE's favor. If the SE whittles Sidious down enough, they just slag whatever planet or ship Sidious is on, eliminating a 1v1 fight that Sidious would certainly win.

Might I also suggest we eliminate Special Forces beyond the personal Emperor's Guard for each side as trying to compare them and Sith (as they've never fought OR Sith or anything easily equatable) is pointless as we have little to no baseline. I'd say the GE's counter to Sith is their sheer numbers.
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