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Current returns from expertise and primary stats

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Current returns from expertise and primary stats

Ybini's Avatar


Ybini
12.13.2012 , 09:15 AM | #11
Main stat was maybe a point lower than power when I tested with Augments max out WH on smuggler. So I went mainstat for the near same damage and secondary bonus.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
12.13.2012 , 09:15 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Of course they are!!




There is no dimishing returns on main stats.... It's 100% linear. 1MAIN = .2 damage bonus. Here is a chart.


@ OP
There is a sweet spot for EXP, as defined by role. Ranked or Non-Ranked
900 Healers
1000 Tanks*
1100+ DPS

These are the soft caps for output where main stats actually produce higher numbers, once you pass those benchmarks.. My advice? If you are PuGing alot, but intend to do ranked, don't stack EXP past 1100. Play your role at these numbers. With the limited healing/skills in unranked, it will make you better when you do transition to ranked...
I knew you would be coming here eventually.

To clarify; that doesn't mean "Stop getting Expertise when you hit these numbers;" right. Just once you go to min max, and start finding things with stats that take you down toward these numbers in favor of more main stat, then that is ok.

I don't want to see confused individuals just stop buying their WH armor when they happen to just hit those marks while not having the main and secondary stats to replace it.

islander's Avatar


islander
12.13.2012 , 09:17 AM | #13
I don't see how I'd be more effective with 900 expertise over 1300. When I personally dropped from 1400 to 1300, it was a virtually flat tradeoff. I lost about 1% in overall survivabilitiy ( - damage done, - defense against incoming damage, - healing boost) and instead gained about 1.1% back in overall power. (Edit: Yes, I used resolve 27's)

Being a turret healer doesn't help.
If you're dead, you aren't healing (or bubbling) anyone.

I can understand the other classes doing it, mercs because they actually have defenses, and operatives because they have stealth and can heal way better on the move.
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
12.13.2012 , 09:19 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I knew you would be coming here eventually.

To clarify; that doesn't mean "Stop getting Expertise when you hit these numbers;" right. Just once you go to min max, and start finding things with stats that take you down toward these numbers in favor of more main stat, then that is ok.

I don't want to see confused individuals just stop buying their WH armor when they happen to just hit those marks while not having the main and secondary stats to replace it.
Correct... I am saying buy your WH gear damn it!! ......

Then replace PvP Armorings for PvE ones of the same tier...

Win....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SgtBranham's Avatar


SgtBranham
12.13.2012 , 09:32 AM | #15
I tend to run a little low on the expertise in favor of main stat. My sniper has ~2000 Cunning and low 1200's expertise in full WH.
My Juggernaut (tank/tank hybrid) runs in the low 1100s. The Mindset here are as follows:
1. that you are usually the last person to be attacked and there is no evidence that expertise effects damage coming though your guard.
2. If you are being focused by 3+ or more dps then, without a healer, its not going to make a difference.
3. You have enough defensive cooldowns between, saber ward, WZ adrenal, undying rage, Engraged Defense, Unstoppable, and invincible to make up for it and the added endurance from the PVE mods keep you standing longer.

If your sitting with 26k Hitpoints, it give the healers more time to get the heals off while you are guarding them.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
12.13.2012 , 09:35 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
I don't see how I'd be more effective with 900 expertise over 1300. When I personally dropped from 1400 to 1300, it was a virtually flat tradeoff. I lost about 1% in overall survivabilitiy ( - damage done, - defense against incoming damage, - healing boost) and instead gained about 1.1% back in overall power.

Being a turret healer doesn't help.
If you're dead, you aren't healing (or bubbling) anyone.

I can understand the other classes doing it, mercs because they actually have defenses, and operatives because they have stealth and can heal way better on the move.
For healer output, I think that is not possible.

EG:
900 EXP you are around 10% healing bonus
1300 EXP you are around 13% healing bonus

To gain 400 EXP(3% bonus), you drop your main stat around 290 main. Main stats hover in the 1200 range @ WH level.
Thats 20% bonus healing nerf, for 3% healing gain... Base heals brings those numbers closer, as the 3% is over the entire healing calc, but... yeah... try it... You will have bigger heals.....


As for the whole dying thing. IMO mitigation in PVP is soley based on DFCD not on EXP mtigation. I see no difference in having the raw HP. Its a point of contention, but I always say.. EXP mitigation is highly questionable as to when it will actually be effective, so at the end of the day, take the higher output/burst....


PS: you should only trade EXP for MAIN/END if you are getting any other stats in lieu of EXP, its not a good idea....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

Kelrizzo's Avatar


Kelrizzo
12.13.2012 , 09:40 AM | #17
@itsmymillertime: exactly what i was searching for. The last chart I saw was a conversion of expertise to pvp bonus which is obviously outdated.

Good conversation, I'm always looking to get smarter on the mechanics. More productive than complaining about them every single time

islander's Avatar


islander
12.13.2012 , 09:41 AM | #18
Randle, you aren't factoring in surviviability in the equation above.
Although I guess your point is taken in the sense that I include damage output, not just incoming. As a healer I do try to DPS as well to help others, and generally add 80-120k in damage on top of my healing (in bubble stun mode). More if I do the madness hybrid.

If I were to factor in only the +damage taken and the - to healing output, then yeah the argument would be better.
As far as my main stat, as a Sith Sorc, my main stat is 2000 (edit: obviously with buffs). Literally, on the nose currently, with 1290 expertise. If I swapped out 3 more armorings, I'd lose 150 expertise and gain about 110 willpower.

Another consideration is I almost never do ranked. I'm in a very large guild, and I don't crack the 'A' lineup. Unranked warzones have lots of bad DPSers honestly, I find the need to help more then heal sometimes (because they don't need healing, just suck at output, focusing healers, etc).

I like this conversation though. It's making me rethink some things either way. What do you think about crystal swapping for power? I vacilate back and forth on this. Plus I do kinda like the black core with red, it's old school.

(done editing, promise)
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
12.13.2012 , 09:43 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I knew you would be coming here eventually.

To clarify; that doesn't mean "Stop getting Expertise when you hit these numbers;" right. Just once you go to min max, and start finding things with stats that take you down toward these numbers in favor of more main stat, then that is ok.

I don't want to see confused individuals just stop buying their WH armor when they happen to just hit those marks while not having the main and secondary stats to replace it.
Hey Tech,
Check this out. I bought EWH implants to replace my BH ones. I actually feel squishier on my hybrid tank. I moved from 740EXP to 920EXP... Endure+PvP medpak just isn't as EPIC without the higher HP... My damage increased, but lol...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
12.13.2012 , 09:51 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
Randle, you aren't factoring in surviviability in the equation above.
Although I guess your point is taken in the sense that I include damage output, not just incoming. As a healer I do try to DPS as well to help others, and generally add 80-120k in damage on top of my healing.

If I were to factor in only the +damage taken and the - to healing output, then yeah the argument would be better.
As far as my main stat, as a Sith Sorc, my main stat is 2000. Literally, on the nose currently, with 1290 expertise. If I swapped out 3 more armorings, I'd lose 150 expertise and gain about 110 willpower.

Another consideration is I almost never do ranked. I'm in a very large guild, and I don't crack the 'A' lineup. Unranked warzones have lots of bad DPSers honestly, I find the need to help more then heal sometimes (because they don't need healing, just suck at output, focusing healers, etc).

I like this conversation though. It's making me rethink some things either way. What do you think about crystal swapping for power?
Well, yeah survivability is always the point at which this EXP coin stands on its side.

Put it this way, as a TANK, my ENDURE talent is based on my max HP, so gaining 3% more expertise mitigation is not worth losing 20% of my HP. I can heal myself for around 15k currently. No healer can match that... If I stacked EXP to the max I would only be around 10k.

As for the crystal swap. I did... I think you said you are at 1290EXP right? Ok here is a good test. check your Dark heal rating and then add in your PVP bonus. then take the EXP crystal out and put the power one in and recalc. if you are around 1290EXP, dropping to 1249EXP will give you a better heal, without losing and real mitigation..
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango