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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.15.2012 , 03:53 AM | #801
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
No, the conditions set forth for something to be "pay to win" include making cash payments for things that allow one to enjoy, 1) extra convenience that makes the game easier and, 2) circumvention of gameplay (grinding). Subscribers receive both of those benefits, and therefore they are in fact paying to win. If a person who decries "pay to win" wants to be conistent and avoid hypocrisy, they must go F2P.
There is the crux though, the game went F2P, it was never F2P from the start.

Besides you can buy everything you mention as F2P.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

FortunesDemise's Avatar


FortunesDemise
12.15.2012 , 04:41 AM | #802
I want to know why someone/anyone that has more money laying around, than I do as a "subscriber" should be entitled to buy the items they want with Actual cash (talking exclusively about endgame items such as crystals and ship parts) Why is your "extra money spent" more valuable than my subscription fee? Why should that grant you special privileges to skip content? Aside from the response "well I should play how I want...And that's how I want to play..."

My response to that statement would have been in the past, This game is not for you then. However Bioware's decision has actually shown me this game is no longer for me. I am done trying to look out for the better interest of this game while they keep making bad decisions. I have stopped talking this game up to friends to get them to come back, and I am now jumping ship. Do I want to? No, I do enjoy this game, but I have standards and when F2P was announced I told my friends when they start offering endgame items (of any sort) for Cash, I am out, I was blindly hoping they wouldn't be that stupid, but I should have realized my 15$ a month wont effect their income with the amount of freeloaders, and lazy people with more money than time on their hands.

And to those of you who are trying to say that those of us who are saying its a P2W with these changes are now Hippocrates, its BS, I payed a subscription fee to have UNRESTRICTED access to the game, how it was designed, that is not paying to win, your choice to not pay this form of "guaranteed" income doesn't make my choice to, a pay to win option. Move along.

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.15.2012 , 09:11 AM | #803
Quote: Originally Posted by mothear View Post
So your wants trump his wants. Are you King Icebergy of Icebergland or something? Stop thinking that you are more important than him and really tell us why it is so important that someone can get the same gear to occasionally run content with friends? How does this affect you, apart from not being a special snowflake in your pixel gear?

You want to earn your gear, I get that and you can be proud that you did. As long as BW don't put gear in the CS that is better than your gear what is the problem to you?
You obviously did not even read my post, you are just spouting off self righteous drivel. Your level of selfishness astounds me.

Lets pretend that you and I are in the same guild, we play the same spec, and are equally skilled. Lets say a new tier of content comes out, and with it the game goes pay to win. You immediately buy your gear from the store, but I don't. All the sudden you and I go from equally geared to you being far better geared than I. So you start pulling more DPS, and because you do more DPS, you get to raid a lot more than I do.

Not only that, but then our other guild DPS look at your numbers and think, 'wow, I have to buy gear too to catch up'. So then one person and then another all buy their gear. Shortly it becomes the norm for our guild, and the guild shuns anyone that doesn't buy gear. Then all the sudden our guild is the top guild on the server, and all the other guilds start having the same philosophy to keep up.

What happens to someone like me who doesn't want to buy gear then? We get left behind, we do not get to play. But obviously that is OK with you, since I am the selfish one and all I want is to be a "special snowflake".

PS Every time someone uses the "special snowflake" card, it makes me want to punch a baby.
Mikal'B, Battlemaster and Fleet Commodore of the Republic.
<Contraband Inc> 10/10 NiM, 4/4 NiM, NMP, 7/12 NiM, HM GF, 4/5 NiM, 4/10 HM
Jedi Covenant

FortunesDemise's Avatar


FortunesDemise
12.15.2012 , 09:45 AM | #804
I like how people try to defend this.

Lets say me and you are good pals, we dine out at Burger King frequently. One day we get an extreme hankering for a cheese burger, so we go out only to find its extremely busy today. So we wait in line for a good thirty minutes or so, place our order, and wait another ten minutes. Then we notice a guy dressed in a nice expensive looking suit walk through the door and up to the counter and overhear him order the exact same thing. Then to our amazement in under a minute the manager goes to the back makes his cheese burger and hands it to the guy and he's on his way. We exchange a look, then I speak with the manager asking what the hell that was all about. To which his reply is "today we started a program that if you pay 20$ on top of your order you get priority service and don't have to wait in line to get your food. I return and tell you the tale of what just happened and you simply say "well he's got the extra money so eh what ever it didn't effect me." Or "he must really hate waiting in line."

You see Swtor is like fast food, there are many like it, this is just slightly different, and when you offer special service that gives one paying customer priority service over another paying service, you as a business are going to piss off a few customers. And some, like myself, wont stand for it and take our business else where. Is it still good food? Sure. Do you want to support a business that sees their customers as nothing more than a few dollar signs? I don't, that's why I make a big stink about it.

Bzziki's Avatar


Bzziki
12.15.2012 , 10:17 AM | #805
Finally f2p showed his real face|
waiting for Titans

darkov's Avatar


darkov
12.15.2012 , 10:21 AM | #806
Why is time more acceptable than money?

The barrier should be difficulty, skill, ability, whatever you want to call it. Whether you life investment comes from time or money should be irrelevant, especially in PvE content, which has no impact on anyone outside of yourself.

Stryklone's Avatar


Stryklone
12.15.2012 , 10:37 AM | #807
Quote: Originally Posted by Mateops View Post
Usually an topic such as this will bring out different reactions from people. I find that this reaction is strongly motivated by their current status in RL. ... I think its interesting to see that players find "causes" to fight about but in reality they are only trying to defend their advantages, everyone wants to win and everyone wants the winning to be achieve by what they can do best.

I personally want to be player 3: A millionaire who pays and grinds and has it all... ;P
I have loads of money. I have loads of time. My Pay-For-Items reaction in this game is in no way motivated by my money/time status in RL.

A game stops being a game when people pay the referee for an advantage.
CzErkA Corporation


Coincidence?

Stryklone's Avatar


Stryklone
12.15.2012 , 11:27 AM | #808
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
... F2P represents the core game precisely because you can play from the beginning to the end. Therefore, paying the subscription fee to gain conveniences and means of circumvention is P2W under the definitions that have been proposed here. ...
If we were to go along that F2P is the core (story 1-50) game - not the entire game, an important point - you see anyone able to do anything beyond that as an advantage. By that reasoning, anyone mopping floors and not getting paid like Warren Buffett is being shafted.

However, the developers (and in this case I agree with them) disagree with you.

The use of the Cartel Market is the shining example - and marketed as such - for gain of conveniences and means of circumvention. Subscribing and doing the quests to earn items/advancement are the long way around, not the bonus.

Being allowed to go on quests and earn their rewards is the game itself; that's not P2W.

There seems to be no further point in addressing this with you, so hopefully we can both agree to disagree. Enjoy your weekend.
CzErkA Corporation


Coincidence?

FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
12.15.2012 , 11:47 AM | #809
They should drop the amount of fleet comms you need to get these items, 500 comms takes 5 days of grinding all missions just for one part is a bit excessive. There shouldn't be such a big grind for what is technically a side game.
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
Thats no moon... thats a CARTEL COIN!

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.15.2012 , 05:28 PM | #810
Quote: Originally Posted by darkov View Post
Why is time more acceptable than money?

The barrier should be difficulty, skill, ability, whatever you want to call it. Whether you life investment comes from time or money should be irrelevant, especially in PvE content, which has no impact on anyone outside of yourself.
Please read the thread, it is pointed out multiple times that it DOES impact other people.
Mikal'B, Battlemaster and Fleet Commodore of the Republic.
<Contraband Inc> 10/10 NiM, 4/4 NiM, NMP, 7/12 NiM, HM GF, 4/5 NiM, 4/10 HM
Jedi Covenant