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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:25 PM | #761
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Planetside 2 comes to mind.
Et tu Vandicus? Honestly shocked here.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:26 PM | #762
Quote: Originally Posted by mothear View Post
Nothing that you have said there is in his post. All he is saying is that by paying a sub you (the royal you) should not equate P2W as something that circumvents a grind because by subscribing you are doing just that. In all definitions of the word that is hypocrisy.

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:26 PM | #763
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
Please don't be offended by this, but I do not think you are the authority empowered to define what is and is not P2W. As I have said, I am basing my accusation of hypocrisy on definitions that the anti-P2W bloc have used earlier in this thread.
No you are most probably performing an action that begins with a T but, I have to stay late at work and I don't mind fencing. Oh and you're wrong.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
12.14.2012 , 04:29 PM | #764
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Et tu Vandicus? Honestly shocked here.
Well I think a sub does qualify for the definition of p2win, but for an MMO I view it as an acceptable level of p2win. Experience boosters could also be considered p2win, but I find them acceptable. I draw the line at end game pve and pvp gear, or any sort of rare pvp boosts or something being in the CM. Seeing as how everyone has a different definition of p2win, I find it easier to simply draw a line for what I will or won't accept in a game, rather than what the definition of a word is.
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:32 PM | #765
Quote: Originally Posted by mothear View Post
Nothing that you have said there is in his post. All he is saying is that by paying a sub you (the royal you) should not equate P2W as something that circumvents a grind because by subscribing you are doing just that. In all definitions of the word that is hypocrisy.
Negative. The "grind" is part of the game. That is in the design of ALL MMORPGs. The grind IS the game. Let me repeat. THE GRIND IS THE GAME. The entire construct of a MMORPG is a variable reward SKINNER BOX. Another example of this is a "slot machine". What you are saying is that instead of continuing to put in the coins and pull the lever ( e.g. the grind ) one should just put in one coin, pull the lever once, and win everything. That is not playing the game as intended. That in another word is CHEATING.

If I pay a sub and play the game as intended within the features I am given for paying the price of the subscription, I am not a hypocrit. If you want to begiven everything for NO EFFORT you are being entitled. Remember in a world where everyone is special, noone is. In a world were everything is handed out for free and no work, there is no creativity, or reason to do anything. Mediocrity is the "spice of the day" and the world becomes bland. I want my world and my games to be challenging and painted with bold colors. Not be fed soma.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:34 PM | #766
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
No you are most probably performing an action that begins with a T but, I have to stay late at work and I don't mind fencing. Oh and you're wrong.


In all seriousness I am not trolling, I just found the argument that some people were making about P2W to be...specious. Its absolutely an opinion, but if you don't present it as an absolute then the game isn't any fun.

My only real concern is that the cash store continue to offer some items of grind circumvention, such as the starship upgrades.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:36 PM | #767
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
The "grind" is part of the game.
That is probably the nub of our disagreement. As an old guy (37) I remember the days when games were great without any grinding at all, so I have to reject the idea that grind is, or should, be considered part of the game.

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:37 PM | #768
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Well I think a sub does qualify for the definition of p2win, but for an MMO I view it as an acceptable level of p2win. Experience boosters could also be considered p2win, but I find them acceptable. I draw the line at end game pve and pvp gear, or any sort of rare pvp boosts or something being in the CM. Seeing as how everyone has a different definition of p2win, I find it easier to simply draw a line for what I will or won't accept in a game, rather than what the definition of a word is.
Again how is a subscription paying to win. It's paying for the service as intended. This is a dangerous, dangerous and cancerous "repurposing" of words. Paying a subscription is the intended idea. Playing for free is not and should never be. Games are a luxury. They are not and never should be given away for free. Ever. You and your camp are spinning and twisting the definition of Pay to Win to make subscribers appear as the bad guy. It is your camp that is the bad guy here. You are following Alinsky's Rules for Radicals when you do that. And that is reprehensible.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
12.14.2012 , 04:37 PM | #769
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post


In all seriousness I am not trolling, I just found the argument that some people were making about P2W to be...specious. Its absolutely an opinion, but if you don't present it as an absolute then the game isn't any fun.

My only real concern is that the cash store continue to offer some items of grind circumvention, such as the starship upgrades.
Well for some things the only point is the grind, end game pvp gear(which is now largely cosmetic) and end game pve gear. End Game PVE gear always exceeds the gear requirements of any content currently available(and usually by a substantial margin), and pvp gear shows off pvp-skill(not really but this is how a lot of people act about it).
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:40 PM | #770
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
That is probably the nub of our disagreement. As an old guy (37) I remember the days when games were great without any grinding at all, so I have to reject the idea that grind is, or should, be considered part of the game.
I am older than you I have been playing since the MUD days. When has a game NOT been a grind? There is no other construct. ALL games at some point have a grind. Online or Not. At some point there will be a grind point in a game. That has to do more with they psycology of how we percieve things than the games themselves.