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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

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Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.13.2012 , 09:13 PM | #681
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
Absolutely untrue. The mats alone to make a single ship part cost nearly $1 million credits.

None of the parts on the Jedi Covenant Server are crafted; they are all put there from straw purchases off the Cartel Market. How could I tell? No crafter name tag on a single one of them. Why would a crafter even bother when they are undercut by 70% of breaking even?
Yep. I was just coming back to correct that part as I did the same just now, looked for crafter's names.

That part I can agree with, allow crafting and legitimate sale of the items. It would support crafting, open more options for myself and everyone else. Win.
May the Schwartz be with you....

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.13.2012 , 09:19 PM | #682
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
Yep. I was just coming back to correct that part as I did the same just now, looked for crafter's names.

That part I can agree with, allow crafting and legitimate sale of the items. It would support crafting, open more options for myself and everyone else. Win.
For the record, I don't have as much of a problem of them putting the gear in the CM as the fact that the missions are tuned specifically for them making it all but impossible to run them without first obtaining a set of T7 gear.

The grind option is just too much - I mean 2000 fleet comms, 500-some daily comms, + schematics & high level crafting mats? Somehow that equals a $9 purchase?

That's where the anger & resentment in this tread is coming from primarily, at least from me that is.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.13.2012 , 09:29 PM | #683
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
For the record, I don't have as much of a problem of them putting the gear in the CM as the fact that the missions are tuned specifically for them making it all but impossible to run them without first obtaining a set of T7 gear.

The grind option is just too much - I mean 2000 fleet comms, 500-some daily comms, + schematics & high level crafting mats? Somehow that equals a $9 purchase?

That's where the anger & resentment in this tread is coming from primarily, at least from me that is.

And I can absolutely agree with you there. I don't want to wait two to four months before I can enjoy them (and I do enjoy space missions). I was speaking to those that do not want them in the CC at all. Seems unreasonable to me. However, I have to agree with you on your contention. The grind would be ridiculous so in a manner of speaking it is leaving people with one choice, buy them with CC or don't play for months. That can't be good for the game as it will only serve to further piss off the population.

I'm hoping that the intent is to balance that out and make it at least a reasonable grind. Too late to allow people to participate with x amount of 7s. Seems you need them all, or at least most.
May the Schwartz be with you....

FortunesDemise's Avatar


FortunesDemise
12.13.2012 , 09:32 PM | #684
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
They are there because there are people such as myself that play the game and can afford the nine dollars it cost to buy them but do not have the time to run every mission, every day for 60 days....and I enjoy them.

Some of us don't live the game, some do. If you would rather earn them in game, then earn them in game. I'll do a little of each as time permits. How I play does not affect you at all.

Bottom line here is that you are not the only one playing the game and though I can respect your opinion, I disagree with it, or your contention that because you do not want to buy them, no one should be able to. I personally do not enjoy mind numbing grinding. We are not in direct competition in space as we would be in PvP so no harm no foul.

You play your way, I'll play my way. That is what they are allowing to occur.

They still have no place on the cartel market don't want to do the grind? Spend credits once they are crafted or earned by other people who do the grind. Why is that such an appalling concept?
And this could effec me as I am a cyber tech and what you did just cost me a potential sale.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.13.2012 , 09:34 PM | #685
Quote: Originally Posted by FortunesDemise View Post
They still have no place on the cartel market don't want to do the grind? Spend credits once they are crafted or earned by other people who do the grind. Why is that such an appalling concept?
You have to grind the credits. I don't want to have to mindlessly grind 3 to 4 million credits in order to enjoy the space game. To me that's worse then grinding space missions for coms.

As I stated, crafting should be an option, so too should the space grind be reduced. That grants you the option to play as you see fit. I can support that. What I can't get behind is people telling me that I can't play the way I wish because they don't want to. ;p
May the Schwartz be with you....

FortunesDemise's Avatar


FortunesDemise
12.13.2012 , 09:51 PM | #686
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
You have to grind the credits. I don't want to have to mindlessly grind 3 to 4 million credits in order to enjoy the space game. To me that's worse then grinding space missions for coms.

As I stated, crafting should be an option, so too should the space grind be reduced. That grants you the option to play as you see fit. I can support that. What I can't get behind is people telling me that I can't play the way I wish because they don't want to. ;p
Yea forget the community and economy who needs it. While we are at it lets just make everything available via cartel coins cuz grinding sucks and is pointless.

What I hear when you say "let me play how I wanna" is let me buy credits cause I don't want to grind endless dailys cause I don't l don't like to do that stuff.
See where this line of thought leads?

Sorry but pulling money out of thin air is bad for the econemy.

RazielHex's Avatar


RazielHex
12.13.2012 , 09:56 PM | #687
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
2) It's not Pay to Win because you're not directly competing against anyone
If they didn't sell PvP gear, but sold PvE gear, that's not directly competing against someone else. You're grouped with other people in a combined effort to down a scripted AI boss. You can say you're competing against others for "Server 1st" or "World 1st", but all this gear does is help you to down content faster. But that's exactly what the ship upgrades do. They help you complete those new missions faster and more easily which enables you to obtain credits and commendations..
Sure are a lot of hypotheticals there that aren't based on reality.

LegendaryBlade's Avatar


LegendaryBlade
12.13.2012 , 10:31 PM | #688
You know, if you had made a thread claiming that SWTOR was going to eventually become a free to play pay to win MMO practically akin to some korean game you'd of been flamed to death.

(Although if you had told me there'd be whole threads of people defending p2w here, I'd of believed that for sure)
Star Trek Online Science Officer - "To boldy go where no man has gone before."
Jung Ma RP-PVP Server:
Armetage - Gunslinger

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.14.2012 , 12:48 AM | #689
Quote: Originally Posted by FortunesDemise View Post
Yea forget the community and economy who needs it. While we are at it lets just make everything available via cartel coins cuz grinding sucks and is pointless.
Ok now you are starting to sound like a whiny kid here. Not going to do this with you. I've already said that I think they should be craftable, but what you seem to want is to corner the market and subject the rest of us to your crafting, your prices without any other option. That's never going to happen as it is little more then out of the frying pan into the fire.

Quote:
What I hear when you say "let me play how I wanna" is let me buy credits cause I don't want to grind endless dailys cause I don't l don't like to do that stuff.
See where this line of thought leads?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't like mindless grinding, day after day doing the same mind numbing thing. That's not fun to me. Fun is playing the game as I choose as my time permits. That would be crafting, space missions, raiding, leveling. What you seem to be saying is that I should play according to your desires. My fifteen a month, your choice of how I play?

Quote:
Sorry but pulling money out of thin air is bad for the econemy.
The economy is still robust enough that I'm still selling my crafted and farmed items as much as I was before the patch. I have all the crafters including cybertech. Heck, I'm still selling grade two and four ship upgrades, mods, mats, weapons, armor, hilts. I've seen no difference. The economy issue seems to be a red herring argument.
May the Schwartz be with you....

Kwich's Avatar


Kwich
12.14.2012 , 01:03 AM | #690
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
BIOWARE Lessons Learned - Cartel Market 101
  • Do NOT Sell high end gear that gives the image of Play to Win or money Grab.
  • Read comments & Feedback from ALL your players and MMO communities at large.

Grinding is FINE, but you basically forced people to BUY from Cartel Market in order to PLAY the new missions or they spend 2-3 months building up enough materials to make all the Grade 7 Stuff. (Which has a crazy number of high end materials I would rather use to upgrade my PVE gear)

It was like "Here is this cool set of space missions, but you can't play unless you have thousands of Fleet Commendations or just shell out $15 to us in cash and we will give you them instead." - Game on!
Well I just did that in preperation of 1.6.

I spend 3,5 weeks doing space missions on 3 characters EVERY FU**ING DAY!

Was that fun for me?? Could that have been fun for anyone?? No! I did that because I want to achieve something.

Can you feel with me when I saw the 3 "new" cartel market space packs??

They already did irrevertable damage to the game and the only thing that keeps we staying so far is the enourmous investment of time I did into this game.

Oh by the way to all collectors out there......there is a hidden maximum in effect with mounts. You can have a maximum of 54 in your vehicle list. Thats it. I have 53 vehicles plus rocket boots. When I tried to learn the command throne it just vanished but gave no skill to summon it.
I made CS to delete one of my small mounts and then I could learn it. The small speeder had then the same problems of not being able to learn it.
So I now have 2 mounts on my bank and new ones will come.

This is the kind of programming these guys do these days =).

I thin that pets have same max number. But excluding the 1.6. new cc pack it mas a maximum of 32 pets so we are still a good way from 54.

Have fun.

Kwich
The only thing one has to fear is fear itself! ....... and of course standing in my way.....