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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

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FortunesDemise's Avatar


FortunesDemise
12.13.2012 , 03:03 PM | #641
Quote: Originally Posted by Guinnessmonkey View Post
*shrug* So says you. Personally, I like 'em being on the market. I just think that the price in comms was way too high; grinding should be a more feasible way to get 'em. (which I'd guess is the "miscommunication". Those comm prices are way out of whack for what you get for 'em and the time it takes to earn 'em)

Yea its a high price to pay, but that's escalation for you, look at the price of Hazmat implants for Bh coms, its retardedly high, but people still buy them or save for them.

Then again, as I've written already, I also have no problem with them letting us use cartel coins to avoid all sorts of grinding. Some people find the end-game gear grind fun. More do not. A way for those of us who don't care about whether we have the absolute top-tier to quickly gear a toon (particularly an alt, for people who were willing to gear one toon but who don't have the time to do it with a second, even if they wouldn't mind having a geared 50 with a different role or class) enough to at least have a chance at seeing the story-level content in the game we subscribed to wouldn't be the end of the world. Those who want to do the full grind to do all the nightmare modes can still do so and boast of it.

As far as alts go I had suggested a long time ago to allow some sort of Legacy box or storage container, to share items gained on your "Main" to use on alts, currently the only way/shape/form is legacy gear which only helps out when you have a ton of endgame item mods that are all bound. Thus allowing you to skip the grind of doing Story mode FP's - Hard Mode FP's- etc, etc, etc, which is an acceptable way to skip the grind IMO, but allowing you to just buy it and skip it completely with out putting any IN GAME effort.

Some of y'all are going to object that the grind is the whole point of MMO's. Well, I disagree. I play SWTOR to see the story content while playing with friends, not because I like doing daily missions over and over again so that I can get the gear that will allow met to do story mode ops over and over again in order to get the gear that allows me to do the T1 HM ops over and over again so that I can do the T2 SM ops over and over again...... etc.

But that is the way a GEAR progression game works, plain and simple, they even stated it a while back when describing why they removed the Black hole Coms from Story Mode EC, because people were acquiring gear faster than intended, and then went on to say what THEIR intention of the order in which gear was meant to be obtained. I feel that your POV is that of someone who is used to INSTANT GRATIFICATION. And when they start catering to that the game goes downhill fast, IMO. It cheapens the experience.

Don't get me wrong. The endless grind with friends might have been partly fun when I was a lot younger and less busy. But I just don't have time for it. I totally fail to see, therefore, how me paying extra money so that I can have the opportunity to see all the content in the game I've already paid for and subscribed to for a year in any way is unfair to anyone else. Is it "unfair" that other people have more time to play the game than I do? Does that mean that Bioware should figure out how much playtime the average player can dedicate to the game each week and use that as an weekly cap in playtime?

I don't have much time either, but when i can make/get the time to do something, and others are too lazy or simply want to skip the time required to obtain something, it makes ME angry that someone can just hop on spend an extra 20$ and skip all the grind "I" had to do to earn the stuff, however if you said you just swooped in and bought all the items off the GTN (assuming they hadn't released them on the Cartel Market), I wouldn't GAF, have at it, you spent the time in game a different way earning credits to buy it so kudos to you.

Younger folks (those with summer vacations, relatively free undergrad schedules, or no job or kids, etc.) often have an advantage in time. Us busy folks with jobs and kids often have an advantage in money. As long as the money solution can't buy better equipment than you can get through crafting, drops, GTN, etc., then I don't see how P2W is even part of the equation. P2W means that you must pay to win. If you put full Rakata sets (or even Campaign or Dread Guard) on the cartel network that's not P2W. Lots of folks on the server will have already earned all that stuff for free through grinding.

So you are saying that one player has to play the game to earn his gear, and another player works hard at his Real Life job to earn his gear by then just buying it? That line of thought, IMO, ruins the game economy.
And brings up too much hate between RL poor/rich people, and just promotes trolling etc, and is generally bad.
P2W to me means allowing people to skip content(by paying Real money) to get the best gear, which in this case, the best gear for your ship is what you are paying for, you are not paying for grade 1-6, so yea it kinda is, people need to abandon the old line of reasoning what P2W used to mean, and what the majority of people perceive it to mean now.


Anyway....
That's my thoughts on it anyway, take it with a grain of salt, the Cartel Market should only contain COSMETIC ITEMS only, this is just fail.

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.13.2012 , 03:10 PM | #642
Quote: Originally Posted by Pulpp View Post
The mods have deleted hundreds of posts today (this one will likely go eventually too ). That makes sense of course, since as the EA staff member said -- they value our feedback and are listening....*cough*

lol!
Well there was a spike in troll shortly after the dev statement trickled out from the more unsavory members of our community. Must have been quoting a thread marked for deletion.

No harm, no foul. What I was addressing was covered by someone else anyway.

ObiJuanShenobi's Avatar


ObiJuanShenobi
12.13.2012 , 03:24 PM | #643
Quote: Originally Posted by Dirtyshadow View Post
Am I reading and understanding the following right....


Grade 7 items I know of ingame cost a huge amount of daily / fleet commendations as well as pricey craftable objects... so giving them out day 1 of the new heroic space missions, in a Cartel pack...
circumventing all ingame crafting/grinding by throwing real world money at them...
is that not by definition "Pay2Win" Space Missions ???

Honestly, as long as it IS obtainable through in-game work....who freaking cares?

It's on the Cartel Shop, which makes sense with their F2P model (P2W..W/E) and it's obtainable through work in-game for subscribers like me who shouldn't have to pay more than $15 a month. Ever..

The REAL PROBLEM here is putting things like gear sets and holiday stuff (Life Day) on the cash shop but not allowing these items to be obtained in the game outside of credit grinding for the massively inflated GTN prices. If BW can't put an in-game event for holiday stuff with dailies so subscribers like me can WORK for the loot, then BW failed hard. If BW can't have Revan's Robe, the Sith Throne, the armor sets, ect become drops from world bosses, end-game bosses, ect then BW failed hard.

Subscribers should never have to pay more than the sub and we should have UNLIMITED ACCESS TO EVERYTHING if we work for it. I don't know about you all, but some of us MMO players like to earn things.

BW, keep selling stuff on Cartel Shop but you need to cater to me and the rest of the subs and allow us to get this stuff in the game as well.
The Lightstrider Legacy

Darth Crucious I Darth Imperius I Master Darkstrider I Master Liam Lightstrider I Captain Evie Lightstrider I Agent Morran Lightstrider I Major Tanken I Nikro, Hired Gun

Stryklone's Avatar


Stryklone
12.13.2012 , 03:27 PM | #644
The nose: "Cosmetic and convenience only"
The body: "We'll sell blues"
The whole camel is now in the tent.

BiS gear is being sold. The devs' only expressed regret is that the price was set too high.
CzErkA Corporation


Coincidence?

Rogoo's Avatar


Rogoo
12.13.2012 , 03:31 PM | #645
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.
Now the real question is why are they even obtainable in the cash shop in the first place ?

No purple items should be there. Period.
You are not your rig specs. You are not your K/D ratio. You are not your character level. You are not your sig.
Gunslinger / Shadow / Sentinel / Powertech
The Hero engine: a 2005 technology bringing 2013 rigs to their knees.

Pulpp's Avatar


Pulpp
12.13.2012 , 03:31 PM | #646
Quote: Originally Posted by ObiJuanShenobi View Post
Honestly, as long as it IS obtainable through in-game work....who freaking cares?
It matters for the same reason EA selling level 50 pre-made geared toons would matter...sure, you can still do it for "free" but a line has been crossed that severely affects the game/economy/content/players. If that's your personal benchmark for what is acceptable, then EA gets a free pass to add whatever they want to the shop. That may work for you, but I bet most players would be pissed and the game is worse off for it.
--
Entitled whiners don't understand the new F2P model purposefully offers a stripped down version of the game to entice people to subscribe, because polls showed people were not willing to subscribe to the full version of the game (wait...what?!).

Jackobite's Avatar


Jackobite
12.13.2012 , 03:32 PM | #647
I must admit my eyes did widen in surprise when I seen the space equipment on the Cartel Market,
Generally I dont have much of an opinion on whats up for sale in the CC, If I dont like I dont buy.

but its good to see you guys voice concerns and even better that the devs respond, this is the way forward for the game.

Only constructive thing I have to say is its not a bad thing for the game to turn a good profit, Profit isnt a dirty word remember the game stops making money it will come to an end very quickly.
CE

TripleMe's Avatar


TripleMe
12.13.2012 , 03:46 PM | #649
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.
So how soon can we expect Dread Guard and EWH gear to be available on the Cartel market ?

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.13.2012 , 03:47 PM | #650
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.
The fact this isn't the first time we got something like this (HK-51), the outcry being loud now but not then should have been a clue. HK's cost wasn't so crazy and he wasn't portrayed as being necessary but only an extra. However, to put in missions and pretty much tell the players they have to buy something from the shop or grind for a month was taking it too far.