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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

JustTed's Avatar


JustTed
12.13.2012 , 11:13 AM | #541
Quote: Originally Posted by Guinnessmonkey View Post
What percentage of people complaining that the space gear is P2W have actually beaten all the new space missions? 'Cause I know I can't.
This. I've beaten half of them. They're very challenging.

It's not pay to win, it's pay to participate, and you don't even need to do that since the items are available elsewhere. This thread is silly.

mlcslc's Avatar


mlcslc
12.13.2012 , 11:21 AM | #542
Who cares if you imagine it's pay 2 win? You can get the upgrades through ingame play. I swear playing with poor people ruins everything.

Macheath's Avatar


Macheath
12.13.2012 , 11:23 AM | #543
As soon as BioWare made end-game commendations a reward for space combat, that should have disqualified the end-game ship parts from being made available in the cash shop.

And what's more, that decision should have been a no-brainer. The failure of BioWare to recognize what constitutes "pay to win" is disappointing. Hopefully, they learn from this experience.

-Macheath.
Remember, if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

JustTed's Avatar


JustTed
12.13.2012 , 11:25 AM | #544
Quote: Originally Posted by Macheath View Post
And what's more, that decision should have been a no-brainer. The failure of BioWare to recognize what constitutes "pay to win" is disappointing. Hopefully, they learn from this experience.
You must have missed my last post. Here it is again:

Quote: Originally Posted by JustTed View Post
This. I've beaten half of them. They're very challenging.

It's not pay to win, it's pay to participate, and you don't even need to do that since the items are available elsewhere. This thread is silly.
It's not pay to win. You can pay and still lose. Also, you can get the items elsewhere. It's not that your claim is false, it's that it's objectively and empirically false.

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.13.2012 , 11:27 AM | #545
Quote: Originally Posted by mlcslc View Post
Who cares if you imagine it's pay 2 win? You can get the upgrades through ingame play. I swear playing with poor people ruins everything.
Poor people? What? ...on second thought nevermind. This doesn't even deserve a response.

MrSchmo's Avatar


MrSchmo
12.13.2012 , 11:32 AM | #546
Look at this thread…

A week ago everyone complained that they were releasing new space missions. Suddenly everyone is mad cause someone can finish/grind the missions faster then they can, even though they hate the space missio. And don play them. Color me confused.

And I'm not sure how a single player mini game can be p2w. Why cause you can get 5 BH comms from them? Oh no 5 black hole comms which gets you gear that is 3rd from the best. Amazed.
That's why they call it space, cause there is so much of it.

TheIrage's Avatar


TheIrage
12.13.2012 , 11:32 AM | #547
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
Nope I gotta disagree here. If they were progression based, they would have been tuned to T6 gear and rewarded T7 gear. They aren't. Purposeful gear gap built in there. The horse pulls the cart, not the other way around...

Try to sell it however you want, but most don't agree with this assessment.
Well, not at all. If BW started to sell Dreadguard/EliteWarhero gear wouldn't that be P2W by "most" as you queote? Yes it would be more universally agreed upon. It would enhance/fasten the progression of a player(s)... just as much as T7 is significantly useful to doing all the new content heroics which are the new level of progression introduced on 1.6. ( if not out right required for the average player). The last statement is partly opinion, you may challenge it, but the base stat increase from T6 to T7 is sufficiently large to make me feel is accurate.

To your analogy, consider that after every horse race you compete on, you gain attributes that help your performance for the next race ( The MMO progression case), and, just as in the case of gear, the cart you carry is where that performance is built on. Thus, in a somewhat humorous way, yes the cart pulls the horse... you just bought/payed for turbo-engines

EDIT: Addition

Furthermore I would add that the new content tuned to T7 gear ( according your post, your opinion or fact, I can't back that myself) is what bring up even more discontent. Prior to 1.6, the space mini-game had progression; the 1.6 content is progression in terms of the step of difficulty but the one thing that is changed is how you obtain the gear (required or greatly helpful) to reach that progression.

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.13.2012 , 11:50 AM | #548
Quote: Originally Posted by TheIrage View Post
Well, not at all. If BW started to sell Dreadguard/EliteWarhero gear wouldn't that be P2W by "most" as you queote? Yes it would be more universally agreed upon. It would enhance/fasten the progression of a player(s)... just as much as T7 is significantly useful to doing all the new content heroics which are the new level of progression introduced on 1.6. ( if not out right required for the average player). The last statement is partly opinion, you may challenge it, but the base stat increase from T6 to T7 is sufficiently large to make me feel is accurate.

To your analogy, consider that after every horse race you compete on, you gain attributes that help your performance for the next race ( The MMO progression case), and, just as in the case of gear, the cart you carry is where that performance is built on. Thus, in a somewhat humorous way, yes the cart pulls the horse... you just bought/payed for turbo-engines
Still not buying into this part of your argument. Note that your other points I agree on so this is not a personal attack.

There's a big difference between "significantly useful" and "required".

However it's decribed (I don't care to call it P2W either), forcing players to buy gear in advance of playing released content (in the Cartel Store, by grinding, or any other method) by purposely inserting a large gear gap is a perversion on how progression is supposed to work and is wrong ihmo.

If allowed to get away with this, EA may very well introduce "Super Duper Cartel Armor" with the Makeb expansion that will be best in game when that releases. Of course, they will make it possible (but prohibitingly painful) to grind for the same way these T7 parts are.

JovethGonzalez's Avatar


JovethGonzalez
12.13.2012 , 12:02 PM | #549 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.

LegendaryBlade's Avatar


LegendaryBlade
12.13.2012 , 12:04 PM | #550
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.
Good to know that 100 threads is enough to get BW's attention. I'll probably hold off on the level 7 space missions until they announce what they're going to do then; perhaps lower comms cost. I like that Bioware noticed the outrage and took it to heart though, a step in the right direction.

Now maybe we should start 100 threads on server transfers....
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