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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

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Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.12.2012 , 09:55 AM | #391
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
And it's still more than you have offered up to this point other than your own personal opinion.

Because, by nature, opinions are biased based on personal preferences and feelings (did I really have to explain that to you). You are quite free to express your displeasure at the market based on your own personal feelings, but when you start throwing around terms like TRUTH, then I have a problem it and will express my opinion to the contrary and explain my justifications for feeling that way.

BJ
There is more than one way for the word TRUTH to be used btw. I didn't say FACT, did I? So may be you should use more than WikiWILDDEFINITIONSHEREpedia for your word look up.

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 09:56 AM | #392
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means. "

Particularly but did NOT say EXCLUSIVELY btw, does it? Nope. Thanks. Even though it's WikiOPINIONpedia, it doesn't limit what it can be. And since the pay items lead to BH comms, it does fit the definition you provided. Again even though it's a loose one that had to use WikiEDITORIALpedia.
Nope again, I didn't say it was official, just from a source that has become accepted to be used as an official reference. Again, still more than you have offered other than your own personal opinion.

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.12.2012 , 09:57 AM | #393
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Pretty much right on the money. There is no broadly accepted definition of P2W. It's whatever anyone wants it to mean for their purposes of rant, complaint, and QQ. The fact is that P2W is being used in this forum almost exclusively as a perjorative to prosecute a biased point of view AND every stale and used pet peeve complainers have about the game. It's not even being done in an entertaining manner either.

Folks, if you do not like microtransactions, then do not make use of them. Period. End of story.

If microstransactions offend you even half as much as some of you portray... you should give up MMOs completely.....because in the near future all MMOs will be microtransaction based.
Then why are you agreeing with him saying that is a broadly accepted definition then? You aren't saying the same to the other side, are you? We all know your bias knows no bounds.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.12.2012 , 09:58 AM | #394
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Nope again, I didn't say it was official, just from a source that has become accepted to be used as an official reference. Again, still more than you have offered other than your own personal opinion.

BJ
And it fits what is in the cartel shop for the space missions. Therefore the one you provided shows this term can be used here.

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
12.12.2012 , 10:03 AM | #395
At first, I was thinking "these new space missions will be tough, but doable with grade 6 upgrades, so this should be fun!"

Nope, they're glorified space-based gear checks. Your ship literally cannot do enough damage and take enough damage for some of these missions with anything less than a full set of grade 7 gear. Combine that with shoving the Proton Torpedo requirement down your throat and the crappy method of lock-on used for it (I have failed to fire torpedos countless times because of the delay in locking on combined with the jerky camera movement in some of the missions when you have short windows for firing them at bridges,) and these things are basically "pony up money to us, even if you're a subber, or prepare to pay at least 1500 fleet comms and at least 300k credits for most of a full set of grade 7 upgrades."

That's the thing that gets me - not only are two of them only creatable my cybertechs (which is a good thing, and a bad thing) but they also cost 700 comms for the schematics, probably more comms for the materials to make them from those boxes there, and the cherry on top? Two of the slots are only available in the Cartel Shop - the improved target jammer and the improved EMP blast.

They managed to find a way to gouge paying customers for space missions, and kill off the fun some casual players who actually enjoyed that aspect of the game had by turning it into a cashgrab.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Sorry about that. It just annoys me that somehow "recommended" turned into "required" somewhere along the line, and nobody sent me a memo about it.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

MarkoJinn's Avatar


MarkoJinn
12.12.2012 , 10:04 AM | #396
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlacke View Post
This thread is full of BS and some here clearly have no idea what p2w means, because this is certainly not that.
Resident trolls aside, i'm amazed by some people's inability to think clearly with their own heads.
And I'm amazed by your denial. Obviously yours and mine definition of P2W differ.
What if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me.

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 10:05 AM | #397
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
There is more than one way for the word TRUTH to be used btw. I didn't say FACT, did I? So may be you should use more than WikiWILDDEFINITIONSHEREpedia for your word look up.
Definition of TRUTH
1
a archaic : fidelity, constancy
b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2
a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
c : the body of true statements and propositions
3
a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b chiefly British : true 2
c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
4
capitalized Christian Science : god
in truth
: in accordance with fact : actually

Lot of "fact" thrown in there. From Merriam-Webster by the way.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
And it fits what is in the cartel shop for the space missions. Therefore the one you provided shows this term can be used here.
Which one - the first implies that the term would apply when said items cannot be gotten for free - i.e. via in-game methods. All those items afaik can be obtained via in game for free.

The second implies a distinct advantage in PvP by using gear over skill. Again, that does not apply here because by the very nature of becoming skilled at a game, one must put in time and effort. Those who do not (i.e. buying "shortcuts") will not become more skilled as a result.

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.12.2012 , 10:08 AM | #398
Quote: Originally Posted by Calsetes View Post
At first, I was thinking "these new space missions will be tough, but doable with grade 6 upgrades, so this should be fun!"

Nope, they're glorified space-based gear checks. Your ship literally cannot do enough damage and take enough damage for some of these missions with anything less than a full set of grade 7 gear. Combine that with shoving the Proton Torpedo requirement down your throat and the crappy method of lock-on used for it (I have failed to fire torpedos countless times because of the delay in locking on combined with the jerky camera movement in some of the missions when you have short windows for firing them at bridges,) and these things are basically "pony up money to us, even if you're a subber, or prepare to pay at least 1500 fleet comms and at least 300k credits for most of a full set of grade 7 upgrades."

That's the thing that gets me - not only are two of them only creatable my cybertechs (which is a good thing, and a bad thing) but they also cost 700 comms for the schematics, probably more comms for the materials to make them from those boxes there, and the cherry on top? Two of the slots are only available in the Cartel Shop - the improved target jammer and the improved EMP blast.

They managed to find a way to gouge paying customers for space missions, and kill off the fun some casual players who actually enjoyed that aspect of the game had by turning it into a cashgrab.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Sorry about that. It just annoys me that somehow "recommended" turned into "required" somewhere along the line, and nobody sent me a memo about it.
Those 2 can't be gotten from anywhere but the shop? I didn't check but if true, you just blew the lid off those elite defenders.

CDSzafraniec's Avatar


CDSzafraniec
12.12.2012 , 10:08 AM | #399
First, if you're a subscriber, you get free cartel coins. Everyone seems to forget that.

Second, how you do in your Space Missions doesn't effect me or my gameplay at all. I'm not going to buy anything, but if someone wants to drop the cash into the game and help keep it alive, good.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
12.12.2012 , 10:12 AM | #400
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Definition of TRUTH
1
a archaic : fidelity, constancy
b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2
a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
c : the body of true statements and propositions
3
a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b chiefly British : true 2
c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
4
capitalized Christian Science : god
in truth
: in accordance with fact : actually

Lot of "fact" thrown in there. From Merriam-Webster by the way.



Which one - the first implies that the term would apply when said items cannot be gotten for free - i.e. via in-game methods. All those items afaik can be obtained via in game for free.

The second implies a distinct advantage in PvP by using gear over skill. Again, that does not apply here because by the very nature of becoming skilled at a game, one must put in time and effort. Those who do not (i.e. buying "shortcuts") will not become more skilled as a result.

BJ
There was nothing that said PvP in your Wiki definition. I'll reprint again: "Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means. "

Where in there does it say the exact letters P... v... and P? You put that standard out there, remember a few posts back? So you get to imply stuff in definitions but others can not. I just need to know what other rules you set down to give yourself an advantage in this. I just want to know what I'm working with.

Oh, and 2b btw.