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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Galentor's Avatar


Galentor
12.11.2012 , 01:13 PM | #171
To the whiners screaming "P2winn" and "Bioware reached new level of crap" (why the hell are you still paying for a sub then??): Get your facts straight about what IS and what is NOT p2win. P2Winn means that someone pays in order to get the upper hand in a direct confrontation against OTHER PLAYERS, be it in PvP or in PvE (the ability to perform better than others in operations / raids).
1st) EVERYTHING contained in the bundle is available via farming in game.
2nd) Space missions are nothing more than a mini game strictly against the A.I. It's a 100% single player experience. There are no leader/score boards and NO rewards are given affecting a players performance in PvP or PvE.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
12.11.2012 , 01:14 PM | #172
I hate to admit it but it does seem like the way things are going new content is going to be

1) Korean style Grind to get the items in game
or
2) Pay some real money to get it instantly.

Just the facts, either you go with it or you quit, I don't think Bioware is going to chagne course anytime soon.
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.11.2012 , 01:14 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkoJinn View Post
WRONG! If a game provides incentive to spend real money to acquire top gear FASTER than via the normal game progression then it is P2W.
DOUBLE WRONG. Look up ZT Online and you will get the true definition of P2W. SWTOR isn't there yet.

BJ
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grombrinda's Avatar


grombrinda
12.11.2012 , 01:16 PM | #174
DON'T BUY THEIR C***....Don't do the missions.

People I encourage you NOT to do any of this , talk with your wallet,send them a message.
We didn't start the Star Wars,They were already fightin' em,since George was writing them!!

MarkoJinn's Avatar


MarkoJinn
12.11.2012 , 01:16 PM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
I hate to admit it but it does seem like the way things are going new content is going to be

1) Korean style Grind to get the items in game
or
2) Pay some real money to get it instantly.

Just the facts, either you go with it or you quit, I don't think Bioware is going to chagne course anytime soon.
Yup and you know what sucks even more? That we will still actually play the game and participate in their little money making scheme. I guess the social engineers know us better than we know ourselves...
What if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me.

Zem_'s Avatar


Zem_
12.11.2012 , 01:17 PM | #176
I'm fine with it as long as the gear is still available in game and Bioware never goes back to either remove it or make it harder to obtain in order to boost CM sales of said item. I would consider that crossing the line.

Different people define P2W differently. To me the operative word is "win". It means that if you want to win you HAVE to pay, because otherwise you can't get the best stuff. That isn't the case here.

That doesn't mean Bioware should make ALL top end gear available for purchase. That isn't even in THEIR best interests because just getting some money in the cash shop can't be their only goal. "Achievers" represent a large segment of their playerbase and there must be things left for them to achieve or they won't stay for long.

Astoncam's Avatar


Astoncam
12.11.2012 , 01:19 PM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by Guancyto View Post
I was actually farming fleet commendations for a couple of weeks off and on before this patch hit. I've played since early access, never bought mat boxes, and like space reasonably well. I could afford one piece.

When faced with grinding a set of dailies that people abandoned even when they were new, and doing it over, and over, and over again in quantities nearly exceeding anything else this game has to offer, for what rewards-wise is another source of BH comms...

...and then you notice that the people you talked with on the PTR mentioned the commendation prices of the level 7 gear being half to a third what they're charging on live (although obviously this is the word of someone on the Internet)...

...and then you notice the whole set is offered by about $13, it's not unreasonable to make the connection that what was already going to be a long and tedious grind was made much longer for the sake of frustrating people into shelling out money.

It's crass, and it's not even slightly unreasonable to be pissed off about it, especially if you were looking forward to heroic space missions. And the biggest problem is that it seems to be exactly consistent with Bioware-EA's new focus.
In GTN every new piece its about 400-500k. Everyday doing dailys and you get a pice, 10 days you get all of them. Considering you do not craft nothing but yourselve or any cybertech friend or guildmate or just spend fleet commendations or daily commendations.

I'm sorry, but 10 days of work in a MMO to get the best equipment (for your ship) is nothing for me. This is nosense. And you dont need all the new spaceship upgrades to do all the quest. It just depends on the time you spend learning the missions and of course, your skill as a pilot.

In other words. I just finished all the quest right now, with 5-6 upgrades. 3 of them bought from cartel market (well, imagine i bough them from gtn) the result is:

Stop crying price: 1.5 mill+300k (attack set + power to the shields). 150 daily comms (1 defensive upgrade). 500 fleet comms (1 defensive upgrade). I dont think this is too much. And if anybody think different, we have a totally different concept about "effort"

10 days doing something is not korean farming. In PvE people spend entire nights during weeks to kill a boss.

< Dark Requiem > Habana - Gunslinger

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.11.2012 , 01:19 PM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by Galentor View Post
To the whiners screaming "P2winn" and "Bioware reached new level of crap" (why the hell are you still paying for a sub then??): Get your facts straight about what IS and what is NOT p2win. P2Winn means that someone pays in order to get the upper hand in a direct confrontation against OTHER PLAYERS, be it in PvP or in PvE (the ability to perform better than others in operations / raids).
1st) EVERYTHING contained in the bundle is available via farming in game.
2nd) Space missions are nothing more than a mini game strictly against the A.I. It's a 100% single player experience. There are no leader/score boards and NO rewards are given affecting a players performance in PvP or PvE.
1) Do you get rewards that increase your PvE gear (BH comms and cash? - Yes)
2) If you don't have a an excessive amount of fleet comms and daily comms lying around can you obtain the new space parts as fast as someone who buys CC coins simply by farming in game? No.
3) Does the person who buys those upgrades via the Cartel Marketing suddenly have an advantage in obtaining PvE gear faster than the person who will farm in game only? Yes

Hence... pay 2 win

JohnAnconia's Avatar


JohnAnconia
12.11.2012 , 01:21 PM | #179
So after +41 stats level 10 crystals we have space pay2win. I predict BW is secretly planning to release war hero gear bundle and black hole gear bundle on the cartel market if space Pay2Win goes well...

DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
12.11.2012 , 01:23 PM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by Dirtyshadow View Post
is that not by definition "Pay2Win" Space Missions ???
No, it is not P2W. P2W by definition is something sold exclusively through the store that gives you an unfair advantage over other players which can't be acquired through normal gameplay. You can acquire the items in question via normal gameplay, i.e. grinding Space Missions.

In addition, purchasing the Cartel Packs is not purchasing any specific item. I have never purchased a Cartel Pack myself, but my understanding is that there is only a chance to receive special items via the Packs. So even if you couldn't grind for these Space Mission items, it would still be debatable whether their acquisition via Cartel Packs is P2W since there is no guarantee you would even obtain the items via that method.
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