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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Mowermanx's Avatar


Mowermanx
12.11.2012 , 10:15 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
You don't have to do anything anywayz.

Here's the problem. Say 1.7 comes out with a new raid and new tier set of gear. You can go in there, farm it, and after a couple months completely deck yourself out.

OR...

You can simply by some CC's and by a whole set off the Cartel Market now!

That's the problem. When it's no longer cosmetic you trivialize the gear obtained by raiders. You would destroy the hamster wheel. People would get all of the gear via CC's and then do the Operation once for storyline and to complete all content in the game. Then they would all unsub.

Having pride that you did something only goes so far when Joe Schmoe standing next to you has the same rewards and all he had to do was throw enough cash at whoever he needed to, to get what the exact same stuff.
If wiki want a good example of a strawman argument, I will point them at this post, I dont think anyone could do a better job.
If/when we ever see raid/pvp gear for sale in the store, Ill be right beside you.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:15 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Vitellius View Post
Fair enough, but the problem with your straw man is we aren't talking about raid gear. This is the space mini game. You know...the thing that everyone says nobody does and is a waste of time.
This is already circumventing gameplay.

It''s not (yet) doing it in the same way as it might in PvP or in PvE raiding, but it's still exactly the same thing.



It actually makes a lot of sense that they would impliment P2W in the least popular part of the game to see how it goes first.

If it makes money, then expect to see more of it in more areas, they did just that in WAR.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.11.2012 , 10:18 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post

Again incorrect.

P2W is anything that allows you to circumvent gameplay (which yes gives some form of an advange - as this doe)
by paying money,

This is P2W, you can pretend it's not, but pretending a bear isn't a bear doesn't make it not a bear.
Can you provide official linkies to your definition that mark it as the official definition and not just your interpretation.

Here are mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Criticism
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04...ne-pay-to-win/

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

Mowermanx's Avatar


Mowermanx
12.11.2012 , 10:18 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
This is already circumventing gameplay.

It''s not (yet) doing it in the same way as it might in PvP or in PvE raiding, but it's still exactly the same thing.



It actually makes a lot of sense that they would impliment P2W in the least popular part of the game to see how it goes first.

If it makes money, then expect to see more of it in more areas, they did just that in WAR.
How about saving your petty whining till that happens?

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.11.2012 , 10:19 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Vitellius View Post
Fair enough, but the problem with your straw man is we aren't talking about raid gear. This is the space mini game. You know...the thing that everyone says nobody does and is a waste of time.
This mini game rewards you with tokens that increase your gear that you can use to raid. So it's no longer just a little mini game for it's own sake. If you got nothing from it except fleet comms which in turn could only by stuff that either was cosmetic only or improved only your mini game performance, than I would be more understanding.

However, this is not the case.

I'm concerned not so much about this feature, in of itself. I'm concerned with the slippery slope BW/EA seems to be standing near. It's just a little line in the sand that they want us to accept as okay because it's far away from buying Raid Gear and PvP Gear. However, it's past the line of "purely cosmetic" which is what people like me were okay with. Buying vanity gear is perfectly okay with me. Using CC's to buy anything that is an upgrade to your stats... that's not okay with me. Sure, this is just for your ship, but we've already crossed the line as it's gear that increases your stats in some way, shape, or form.

See the problem?

Vitellius's Avatar


Vitellius
12.11.2012 , 10:19 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
The grind.

Yes, by an totally incorrect and inplausible defination anything can indeed be anything.

Everywhere else this is P2W.
So you mean time played? Which is my original point. I'm arguing it's not simply pay to win, but pay to win "faster" which isn't the same thing. In plausible? Why? Because it is contrary to your opinion. Ok....if you say so. The thing is, if we can't agree on a definition, then we will never have a resolution. We're all just spinning our wheels spouting our opinions.
"Smoke me a kipper...i'll be back for breakfast." -Ace Rimmer

darthldub's Avatar


darthldub
12.11.2012 , 10:20 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
This is already circumventing gameplay.

It''s not (yet) doing it in the same way as it might in PvP or in PvE raiding, but it's still exactly the same thing.



It actually makes a lot of sense that they would impliment P2W in the least popular part of the game to see how it goes first.

If it makes money, then expect to see more of it in more areas, they did just that in WAR.
Kinda like how they did the f2p model. You know, at first only f2p til lvl 15 to see how it goes, and then it became f2p the way it is now. Kinda funny that people would say that that wouldn't happen back then
New in-game title suggestion: SirCopperfield, the honorable


Quote: Originally Posted by SirCopperfield View Post
You people better start treating me with the respect I've earned..

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:23 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Can you provide official linkies to your definition that mark it as the official definition and not just your interpretation.

Here are mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Criticism
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04...ne-pay-to-win/

BJ
How are those in any way "offical"? They are just links that mostly don't even mention P2W.

Does murder require a UN mandate to be murder? I think not, it is what it is. Do you think the UN have to rule on P2W?

P2W is what it is and this is it.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.11.2012 , 10:24 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
You don't have to do anything anywayz.

Here's the problem. Say 1.7 comes out with a new raid and new tier set of gear. You can go in there, farm it, and after a couple months completely deck yourself out.

OR...

You can simply by some CC's and by a whole set off the Cartel Market now!

That's the problem. When it's no longer cosmetic you trivialize the gear obtained by raiders. You would destroy the hamster wheel. People would get all of the gear via CC's and then do the Operation once for storyline and to complete all content in the game. Then they would all unsub.

Having pride that you did something only goes so far when Joe Schmoe standing next to you has the same rewards and all he had to do was throw enough cash at whoever he needed to, to get what the exact same stuff.
Pride is one thing - that is not P2W. P2W is having a statistical advantage over another player when all else is equal between the two of you simply by buying better gear than the other player can get by playing the game. Since that is not the case with anything in the store up to this point, it is not P2W. Again, it is actually the opposite, because presumably, the player who plays the game to obtain the gear would become more skilled as a result, so they would in actuality have the statistical advantage over the player who simply bought the gear and did not put in the time to "earn" it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
How are those in any way "offical"? They are just links that mostly don't even mention P2W.

Does murder require a UN mandate to be murder? I think not, it is what it is. Do you think the UN have to rule on P2W?

P2W is what it is and this is it.
They are as official as can be gotten in this point in time. Keep reading you will find the quotes I used in the previous post. Attempting to deflect the argument with a completely unrelated hyperbolic statement does not strengthen your position.

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:24 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowermanx View Post
How about saving your petty whining till that happens?
Nope, I'm complaing about it now, because I don't want P2W in the on-the-rail missions either.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1