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Bioware: A Message From a Long Time Fan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bioware: A Message From a Long Time Fan

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
12.22.2012 , 10:40 AM | #61
Thank you for all the responses guys/gals. Honestly, I just had to get this stuff off my chest, but at this point I have very little hope that any of this will even be considered. I don't blame Bioware necessarily. They are a company, and companies exist to make money. From their standpoint, balancing PvP to satisfy the needs/wants of current players is probably low on the totem pole of their to do list. Their sub rate is down, and to the people running the business, that means that they need to bring in new customers, so they keep adding new things into the game without fixing the current game.

Right now I am just playing this game until a new one comes along. I haven't seen anything that is anywhere near as promising as this game was at the start yet. What really bugs me is that Bioware was a company that I really had a great deal of faith in for producing very high quality, entertaining games. All of the games listed in my original post, I love them to death. I love SWTOR too, but damn, it could be so much better, so much more.

Sadly I think the majority of players on SWTOR are still here because WoW is dumb, and there's nothing else out there.
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> POT5
Youtube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/kdbutler2
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eavn's Avatar


eavn
12.25.2012 , 05:06 PM | #62
i heard eve online was good

and i heard they are making elder scrolls online.

Megamaid's Avatar


Megamaid
12.25.2012 , 06:44 PM | #63
I enjoyed your original post but i had some issues with it.

I don't know if you have played the ranged DPS classes in this game but, it seems like you haven't. Ranged are at a huge disadvantage in this game and the only DPS that is even considered decent is the sniper, and that is because of Cover

The gap closing/gap Opening mini game that goes on in any MMO, is extremely in favor of melee at the moment. It is just too easy for the majority of melee to close a gap, and kiting is almost non existent in this game. only a full Madness sorcerer can kite with any sort of real effectiveness, but there damage is **** against anyone who is wort a damn, and they can't burst at all.

because Kiting is already so poor in this game you can't include roots on resolve, **** they need to take knockbacks grabs and pull off resolve. Resolve should not prevent gap closing or opening. Those tools are essential for those class to create a gap, and unless they prevent warriors from leaping to a full resolve target, them my knockback should work against a full resolve warrior.

Granted KBs are too prevalent in this game, so putting them on resolve was necessary, but that has to change. The KB bouncing that goes on is absolutely frustrating. For instance i don't think Comm/Mercs should have a KB and instead should of different tools for creating a gap, maybe a jet jump to a target location that can funciton with the Z axis.
Assasins don't need a KB either. Honestly only Juggs/snipers and sorceres should have a KB.

KB C/Ds are also too short in this game 45sec would be perfect, 20-25sec is just too short. If the range with KBs need better gap opening to compensate than it should come it buffs to an existing ability or add a new ability.

Roots to need to be on some sort of system to prevent rooting someone forever, however that has to be completely independent of resolve which should only function for stuns and stuns that break on damage, otherwise you just have too many problems.

I don't believe resolve should decay it should actually grant you some time of immunity.

IMO resolve should be reworked to incorporate DR. Essentially the resolve bar would be go 0-1200 and broken into 3 section. 0-400, if your resolve is less then 400 a cc lasts for its full duration. 400-800, cc last for 50% its total duration, and finally 800-1200 CC last for only 25% of its standard duration. At full resolve you are immune for X amount. Hard stuns would generate 100 resolve per second, Stuns that break on damage would generate 50 resolve per sec. Abilities should have the resolve they generate placed on the tool tip.

Finally this game needs less hard stuns. Why is it that every class has a hard stun, mezzs should be the dominant form of CC not stuns. I don't mind being CC, i hate being CC'd and damage dealt to me to the point where i can die without ever being able to do anything.

I would prefer to see Sorc and some other classes loose their stuns in favor of much shorter C/Ds on their mezzs and a possibly shorter cast time on the mezzs. The mezz should not me instant either, players should have a way to counter or interrupt CC. I believe that having more mezzs be the dominate form of CC and stuns being more rare would overall create a better PVP environment where people aren't killed inside CC and CC isn't tossed around like battlefield like candy.

Class balance does need some work, and i agree with most of your feedback there with a few exceptions.

Concealment Operative: damage is fine and mobility is pretty good, but fine for a stealth spec. The problem with them energy managment, pretty much for all DPS operatives energy management is terrible and you find yourself using your basic attack far to often. Fiquire out energy management and they will be, since this is the major reason why their sustained is horrible in PvE/PvP.

DPS Sorcerers: Madness is relatively fine sustained damage wise, but it desperately needs some form of burst, the wrath proc just doesn't do it since Lightning Strike still hits for **** and Ch rushing Darkness initial hit isn't that great.
Lightning is just flat out brokenly bad. Partially because kiting is a ***** in this game, and secondly everything has a cast time, and they do terrible damage. Lightning strike sucks, chain lightning doesn't hit that hard and thundering Blast is quite frankly disappointing for a tree topping ability with a 2sec cast time. Fixing this spec requires it to be able to kite more effectively and damage increases, either through proc chance increases or actually increasing damage of thing like lightning strike, and it could also use a way to get an instant cast Thundering Blast that increases its damage. Perhaps Lightning Storms proc could work with TB. Lightning is quite possibly the worst spec in the game for PvP.
Both spec could also use an actual defensive C/D, they are too dependent on the Bubble. Bubble stun is flat out broken, should not be in the game in any form. The stun doesn't play kindly with resolve. If you make it generate normal resolve, then the sorc would have their opponent full resolve in no time with no way to escape since KB currently don't function against resolve targets. Remove the talent all together and replace it with something else.

Rage/Focus: just flat out broken and needs to be redesigned to work around a single target ability. Damage would still need to come down, but the core of the problem is that this is an AOE hitting harder than any other single target attack in the game, Master Strike and a Unload with all ticks beings crits withstanding.

Sentinals/Marauder: If the gap opening/closing model isn't adjusted so that ranged can more easily kite i would say that this class needs its defensive abilities nerfed or one of them cut. They are by far and away the hardest non tank speced class to kill. With all the stun issues this may not seem like an issue but if those actually get fixed this problem will be more noticeable than it is now and they will continue to be the go to for melee dps.

Merc/Commando: Flat out broken, worst healer, and worst DPS for PvP. Damage really isn't a problem with any DPS spec, they mainly suffere from a lack of kiting ability since they are heavily reliant on casting, even Pryo needs to be able to cast. Their Burst/Sustained is fine, they just can't escape long enough to get off necessary casts and subsequently die to easily, Adrenalin Rush could use a Buff for all trooper and BH advanced classes. Assualt/Pyro for merc/mando could possibly use some better resource management tools.

Other than that i think everything else is going relatively well for the type of PvP we have. I would love some space PvP and good world PvP that makes the two factions actually feel like there is a war going on.

Pinkycatcher's Avatar


Pinkycatcher
12.25.2012 , 07:11 PM | #64
I also might add that juggs/guardians are pretty insane at the moment. I've seen them do as much as sentinels and still offer taunts and guarding for points.

I think the main thing that is making PvP bad is that Force Sweep and Dispatch are just so far out there for the classes that nothing can stand up to them. It really is a game of who has the most guardians on the team and at least one healer.

Scrapper Scoundrel's DPS concern is not just energy problems, it's that there is no good rotation (it's even worse in PvE) and the fact that they are doing so little damage now that everyone has expertise it's pointless to play as them because every single other dps class does more damage and has more utility. The stuns the scoundrel have are way less powerful over all than the stuns that a guardian has, but they cause resolve to build up more. A guardian for example can leap, stun, force choke, snare, and given a couple more seconds leap again or guardian leap to get closer if you happen to be able to run away, all while doing 4x the damage.
Pinkycatcher 50 Scoundrel
Pinkyguard 50 Vanguard
Pinkysage 50 Sage
[Contraband Inc.]

Givemedanger's Avatar


Givemedanger
12.25.2012 , 07:38 PM | #65
Things i'd like to be changed.

Jedi guardian/SIth Warrior. Remove autocrit from smash/force sweep. No more power/surge stacking. It has to go.

Operative/Scoundrel dps is fine. No changes there needed.

Merecnary/Commando dps is fine as pyro. Some are doing nice numbers, most do not. They are easy to solo and that is all.

Sorcerer/Sage needs some serious burst. We die so fast in light armor. Maybe make alacrity shorten the dot's duration (faster dot ticks). Or make our death field increase the damage of our next dots by 40-50%? Also don't like the force management in madness spec. As hybrid or lightning it may be ok but not in madness. You can run out very fast esp vs few healers (our basic attack is melee! and doesn'r restore our force lol!). Reduce the cost of force lightning or increase the force regen when using force lightning if specced in madness tree. Bubble stuns won't be needed if the smash/force sweep issue is fixed (autocrit removed).

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.25.2012 , 09:06 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Megamaid View Post
I enjoyed your original post but i had some issues with it.

I don't know if you have played the ranged DPS classes in this game but, it seems like you haven't. Ranged are at a huge disadvantage in this game and the only DPS that is even considered decent is the sniper, and that is because of Cover

The gap closing/gap Opening mini game that goes on in any MMO, is extremely in favor of melee at the moment. It is just too easy for the majority of melee to close a gap, and kiting is almost non existent in this game. only a full Madness sorcerer can kite with any sort of real effectiveness, but there damage is **** against anyone who is wort a damn, and they can't burst at all.

because Kiting is already so poor in this game you can't include roots on resolve, **** they need to take knockbacks grabs and pull off resolve. Resolve should not prevent gap closing or opening. Those tools are essential for those class to create a gap, and unless they prevent warriors from leaping to a full resolve target, them my knockback should work against a full resolve warrior.

Granted KBs are too prevalent in this game, so putting them on resolve was necessary, but that has to change. The KB bouncing that goes on is absolutely frustrating. For instance i don't think Comm/Mercs should have a KB and instead should of different tools for creating a gap, maybe a jet jump to a target location that can funciton with the Z axis.
Assasins don't need a KB either. Honestly only Juggs/snipers and sorceres should have a KB.

KB C/Ds are also too short in this game 45sec would be perfect, 20-25sec is just too short. If the range with KBs need better gap opening to compensate than it should come it buffs to an existing ability or add a new ability.

Roots to need to be on some sort of system to prevent rooting someone forever, however that has to be completely independent of resolve which should only function for stuns and stuns that break on damage, otherwise you just have too many problems.

I don't believe resolve should decay it should actually grant you some time of immunity.

IMO resolve should be reworked to incorporate DR. Essentially the resolve bar would be go 0-1200 and broken into 3 section. 0-400, if your resolve is less then 400 a cc lasts for its full duration. 400-800, cc last for 50% its total duration, and finally 800-1200 CC last for only 25% of its standard duration. At full resolve you are immune for X amount. Hard stuns would generate 100 resolve per second, Stuns that break on damage would generate 50 resolve per sec. Abilities should have the resolve they generate placed on the tool tip.

Finally this game needs less hard stuns. Why is it that every class has a hard stun, mezzs should be the dominant form of CC not stuns. I don't mind being CC, i hate being CC'd and damage dealt to me to the point where i can die without ever being able to do anything.

I would prefer to see Sorc and some other classes loose their stuns in favor of much shorter C/Ds on their mezzs and a possibly shorter cast time on the mezzs. The mezz should not me instant either, players should have a way to counter or interrupt CC. I believe that having more mezzs be the dominate form of CC and stuns being more rare would overall create a better PVP environment where people aren't killed inside CC and CC isn't tossed around like battlefield like candy.

Class balance does need some work, and i agree with most of your feedback there with a few exceptions.

Concealment Operative: damage is fine and mobility is pretty good, but fine for a stealth spec. The problem with them energy managment, pretty much for all DPS operatives energy management is terrible and you find yourself using your basic attack far to often. Fiquire out energy management and they will be, since this is the major reason why their sustained is horrible in PvE/PvP.

DPS Sorcerers: Madness is relatively fine sustained damage wise, but it desperately needs some form of burst, the wrath proc just doesn't do it since Lightning Strike still hits for **** and Ch rushing Darkness initial hit isn't that great.
Lightning is just flat out brokenly bad. Partially because kiting is a ***** in this game, and secondly everything has a cast time, and they do terrible damage. Lightning strike sucks, chain lightning doesn't hit that hard and thundering Blast is quite frankly disappointing for a tree topping ability with a 2sec cast time. Fixing this spec requires it to be able to kite more effectively and damage increases, either through proc chance increases or actually increasing damage of thing like lightning strike, and it could also use a way to get an instant cast Thundering Blast that increases its damage. Perhaps Lightning Storms proc could work with TB. Lightning is quite possibly the worst spec in the game for PvP.
Both spec could also use an actual defensive C/D, they are too dependent on the Bubble. Bubble stun is flat out broken, should not be in the game in any form. The stun doesn't play kindly with resolve. If you make it generate normal resolve, then the sorc would have their opponent full resolve in no time with no way to escape since KB currently don't function against resolve targets. Remove the talent all together and replace it with something else.

Rage/Focus: just flat out broken and needs to be redesigned to work around a single target ability. Damage would still need to come down, but the core of the problem is that this is an AOE hitting harder than any other single target attack in the game, Master Strike and a Unload with all ticks beings crits withstanding.

Sentinals/Marauder: If the gap opening/closing model isn't adjusted so that ranged can more easily kite i would say that this class needs its defensive abilities nerfed or one of them cut. They are by far and away the hardest non tank speced class to kill. With all the stun issues this may not seem like an issue but if those actually get fixed this problem will be more noticeable than it is now and they will continue to be the go to for melee dps.

Merc/Commando: Flat out broken, worst healer, and worst DPS for PvP. Damage really isn't a problem with any DPS spec, they mainly suffere from a lack of kiting ability since they are heavily reliant on casting, even Pryo needs to be able to cast. Their Burst/Sustained is fine, they just can't escape long enough to get off necessary casts and subsequently die to easily, Adrenalin Rush could use a Buff for all trooper and BH advanced classes. Assualt/Pyro for merc/mando could possibly use some better resource management tools.

Other than that i think everything else is going relatively well for the type of PvP we have. I would love some space PvP and good world PvP that makes the two factions actually feel like there is a war going on.
A great post, its always nice to see well thought-out opinions on here. I especially agree with the stun/mez idea you came up with.

Many of these changes on the Knockback being on too short of a cooldown would make merc/sorcs worse, but its hard to say with all the changes you proposed. If Sorc/Mercs had more "non resolve" involved ways to escape melee combat over only having stuns/KB to get away I think this would be a positive change not only for ranged but for melee as well. Being put against a resolved-melee opponent as ranged essentially leaves you in a situation where you have no defensive options against your opponent, which is far from fun to say the least.

As a sorcerer main let me say roots need to have some form of diminishing return and I would argue that ranged have more problems with Roots than melee. Getting chain rooted is a death sentence for mercs/sorcs, because if you can't get away you are basically instantly die. When the only DPS sorcerer escape mechanic is force speed and it is countered by all roots and CC it is a problem. Currently roots are about the only thing that keep sorcs alive, but they are also a large part of the reason we die so easily.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

snine's Avatar


snine
12.26.2012 , 03:27 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluvi View Post
Sadly I think the majority of players on SWTOR are still here because WoW is dumb, and there's nothing else out there.
QFT

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