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Sorcerers or Snipers 4PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcerers or Snipers 4PvP

Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
12.10.2012 , 11:35 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Some sort of Lethality truths:
1: If you are doing very well with lethality in a match, it's not because of you, but because of the team mates that keep your opponents busy so you can DPS at will.
2. If you get a lot of kills with lethality, it's not because of you, but because the enemy team lacks healers, and especially op healers.
3. If you win many 1vs1 duels in a match with lethality, it's not because of you but because of the enemy players that cannot fight you on their own terms.

Tell me, what do you take, Ballistic dampers or 110 energy? Without BD, Pyros will love sticking that bomb onto you, as well as any other burst class bullying you.

All this lethality mobility, oh come on, i bet your butt that MM can do more damage while mobile than leth. Why? Because MM got every 6sec snapshot snipes + FT, and more powerful Takedown than yours. What can leth do while mobile? walk arround and throw DoTs? No Cull? No kill. You have to stop moving if you actually want to kill.

And lets not forget about leaping glowstick monkeys and harpoon boys that would love to see you walking naked on the catwalks.

Yeah I can do 200-350K more damage with leth than with MM 35/3/3 spec, but those are just big numbers, they dont exactly mean that i was able to kill that elusive healer, or burst some ball carrying sorc.
What? I've hit 1 million with lethality on voidstar in a ranked match. It was 1050dps or some such. MM can dream of that, but I've only ever hit 750dps as a high. Cull with corrosive, dart, and weakening up is the single highest 3 second burst in the game comparable to a full ravage/gore. Beyond that you end up boosting your energy regen by 100% in a sustained fight and each dot will do roughly 4-5k before it's removed. It's fantastic single target that is better then MM against all targets, the aoe is just incidental.

I'll grant you that MM is a lot easier to play optimally though.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 11:49 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryvirath View Post
What? I've hit 1 million with lethality on voidstar in a ranked match. It was 1050dps or some such. MM can dream of that, but I've only ever hit 750dps as a high. Cull with corrosive, dart, and weakening up is the single highest 3 second burst in the game comparable to a full ravage/gore. Beyond that you end up boosting your energy regen by 100% in a sustained fight and each dot will do roughly 4-5k before it's removed. It's fantastic single target that is better then MM against all targets, the aoe is just incidental.

I'll grant you that MM is a lot easier to play optimally though.
pls read more careful, i said 350K MORE damage than MM, not 350 k damage.
As I said, lethality is all about big numbers, I can reach those damage just as well against a team of idiots alone or against good players having my tanksin friend guarding my butt while i get heals. Without support, you are toast. And you will not be able to carry your team alone.

As for Cull damage, i would hesitate to make such assertions. A single force shroud will remove it all. Cull itself can deliver up to ~7500 total damage in pvp, if not counting for CD and CG poisons ticking at the same time during cull channeling. And you need all this set up, while ambush, ft and takedown alone can often crit beyond 5k mark easily.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
12.10.2012 , 11:56 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipZep View Post
The added mobility might be true, but when moving around you are not using the strongest ability of your class, uninteruptable and cant be charged. So although Lethaility for sure has potential to get highest dps of the 3 specs, its still the worst for PvP in my opinion aswell.
I recently respecced my Op for heals. Up until about 3 days ago, from the start of the game, I was concealment.

On paper, yes, MM may do some nice damage and the cover ability is nice. And against many classes it is. But in reality, it makes you very, very open to getting ganked by stealthers. In fact, that was my specialty. So NoTomorrow can sit there and say Lethality sucks and can't do jack on their own, they suck 1v1, etc but I know how well they play first hand. MOST may suck, but not all. It also seems that people ignore Debilitate, Flash Bang and Leg Shot. Melee 1v1 sure, Lethality will go down, but don't dismiss the tools a Sniper has as a whole.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
12.10.2012 , 12:03 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
pls read more careful, i said 350K MORE damage than MM, not 350 k damage.
As I said, lethality is all about big numbers, I can reach those damage just as well against a team of idiots alone or against good players having my tanksin friend guarding my butt while i get heals. Without support, you are toast. And you will not be able to carry your team alone.

As for Cull damage, i would hesitate to make such assertions. A single force shroud will remove it all. Cull itself can deliver up to ~7500 total damage in pvp, if not counting for CD and CG poisons ticking at the same time during cull channeling. And you need all this set up, while ambush, ft and takedown alone can often crit beyond 5k mark easily.
An equally geared target with just the sage buff for damage reduction will get critted for 1100 on the tick if you are geared for the cull. Crit rating of 50% assumes 1 in every 2 ticks crits. A full cull gets 12 ticks then the weapon damage which is not insubstantial. You are looking at 10k at least against nearly any target that isn't blowing their defensive CDs and a maximum possible of 18k.

ZipZep's Avatar


ZipZep
12.10.2012 , 12:09 PM | #25
Lethailty is great, it will put ALOT of pressure on enemy healers and Cull is really strong for burst and on a short CD.
Im engineer but, but I would in fact love to play lethality for rated, since Engineer relies to much on explosive probe for burst (30 sec cd).

Lethality and Marksman for me simply offers to little protection. To really get numbers rolling as Lethality you need to stay alive. For me, the tree itself has nothing to offer survivability wise. If i go rated as Lethality im gonna have to reapply my DoT's every time i die, and I get focussed quite abit, often taking same or more dmg than healers. If my team dominated most Rated games I think id spec Lethality for sure.

If playing Marksman and Engineer you can always burst. You dont have to go through 3 GCD's to get of your main dmg ability, which for me is the main reason why I cant use lethality in rated on ToFN. I simply dont ever get the peace and quite to run around DoT'ing people up.
Whasp - Herbs & Derps PvP guild ToFN

Slacking Engineer Sniper and Worst Mara EU

Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
12.10.2012 , 12:22 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipZep View Post
Lethailty is great, it will put ALOT of pressure on enemy healers and Cull is really strong for burst and on a short CD.
Im engineer but, but I would in fact love to play lethality for rated, since Engineer relies to much on explosive probe for burst (30 sec cd).

Lethality and Marksman for me simply offers to little protection. To really get numbers rolling as Lethality you need to stay alive. For me, the tree itself has nothing to offer survivability wise. If i go rated as Lethality im gonna have to reapply my DoT's every time i die, and I get focussed quite abit, often taking same or more dmg than healers. If my team dominated most Rated games I think id spec Lethality for sure.

If playing Marksman and Engineer you can always burst. You dont have to go through 3 GCD's to get of your main dmg ability, which for me is the main reason why I cant use lethality in rated on ToFN. I simply dont ever get the peace and quite to run around DoT'ing people up.
It's a good point, the other problem (aside from breaking CCs) is if the target is dying -too- fast you won't get the benefit of the three CDs prior. Still, it can output almost as much damage as a rage spec albeit with significantly more difficulty and more limitations.

ZipZep's Avatar


ZipZep
12.10.2012 , 12:36 PM | #27
Haha, yea the CC part is annoying aswell true.
I dont like to compare 1000 dps from rage to 1000 dps from Lethality.
Rage player will be doing 6k crit AoE's where as Lethality will be doing ALOT of small numbers on "hopefully" a min. of 5-7 enemies constantly. Its 2 completely different types of damage, even though the end result seems the same.

Lethality is annoying for healers aswell, but lets be honest and say that the 6k crits have alot more effect on the game
Whasp - Herbs & Derps PvP guild ToFN

Slacking Engineer Sniper and Worst Mara EU

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.10.2012 , 12:42 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by TrumpetNut View Post
Hey so based on personal experience which is better? Madness sorc or Marksmanship sniper? Both are good ranged classes I think in PvP and both get targeted alot as well.I know that the sorc has better utility healing capabilities and lastly they have force pull XD! Put your opinion(s) here! Thank you!
For DPS, if you plan on getting into ranked PvP go sniper. If you just want to have fun... go sorc.

A sorc is always on the run... constantly kiting adn being focused. A sniper usually attracts a lot less attention and is more of a turret.

Another thing to consider, since you're obviously a new player. If you don't keybind, or if you still keyboard turn a sniper will be easier to manage and do "better" with than a sorc since you don't have to be as mobile.

But seriously.... don't keyboard turn and please key bind or you're gonna suck either way.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 12:47 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryvirath View Post
An equally geared target with just the sage buff for damage reduction will get critted for 1100 on the tick if you are geared for the cull. Crit rating of 50% assumes 1 in every 2 ticks crits. A full cull gets 12 ticks then the weapon damage which is not insubstantial. You are looking at 10k at least against nearly any target that isn't blowing their defensive CDs and a maximum possible of 18k.
Its 3 ticks of white damage and 6 ticks of yellow damage, Anything else during that time are the poison dots. I am assuming 500 white damage per tick and 1000 yellow crit damage per tick. Pretty standard numbers.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 12:51 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
For DPS, if you plan on getting into ranked PvP go sniper. If you just want to have fun... go sorc.

A sorc is always on the run... constantly kiting adn being focused. A sniper usually attracts a lot less attention and is more of a turret.

Another thing to consider, since you're obviously a new player. If you don't keybind, or if you still keyboard turn a sniper will be easier to manage and do "better" with than a sorc since you don't have to be as mobile.

But seriously.... don't keyboard turn and please key bind or you're gonna suck either way.
If you want somebody to learn mouse turning, force them to play a melee class. SNiper at times can feel too comfortable even with keyboard turning.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.