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Yes ANOTHER gripe at premades in warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Yes ANOTHER gripe at premades in warzones

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 02:27 AM | #21
dem premades

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 02:56 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
Question 1: Why don't you just join a pre-made?
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I play this game casually, I like to jump on play for an hour or two and then carry on with my life. I've asked to join pvp guilds, but ones who accept casual players are VERY hard to find and usually don't just let anyone join, they need to make sure you're good. I'm fully aware that unless I get involved in pvp this way then I'm sacrificing things like rated warzones and the best rewards (this game doesn't have many yet, though) but I'm happy to just stick to normal pvp - I want this to be MY choice.
Your answer is irrelevent. The question is why don't you just form a pre-made of your own. Are you in a guild at all? Does anyone else in that guild PVP? If the answer to both those questions is yes, you can form a pre-made. I do not consider myself a hardcore PVPer. I PVP casually as something to do when I'm not raiding. My guild is not a dedicated PVP guild, but rather tries to focus on both aspects of the game and while we're decent in both aspects we aren't topping the charts quite yet either. Find people you enjoy PVPing with and play with them. No need for a specifically PVP oriented guild. You still might not ever do ranked, but you can least suffer through the face stompings with a friend, and you might even win a few.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
Question 2: Do you think ALL pre-mades like going against PUGs?
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Absolutely not, in fact I feel pretty sorry for some of you. If you sat in the rated queues you'll probably get a match every couple of hours so I don't blame you doing unranked - but do you REALLY have to join every unranked with a group of 4, can't you just random it like everyone else for a bit of fun? I'm sure your pvp skills aren't exactly getting honed at the moment.
I have fun playing with friends I've met ingame. I want to play with them. Heck the only reason I still play this game at all is because I like playing with my guild mates. Just as you want to just log on and play some PVP matches for a few hours, I want to log on and do the same thing with my guild mates. So, no. I'm not going to be solo queuing anytime soon. At least not for a bit of fun. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. Besides if I'm meeting premades on the other side, I'd rather fight fire with fire.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
Question 3: Should we really care about casual players? Isn't that what pve is for?
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You should absolutely care about casual players, our £8.99/month is just as good as yours and unless you're willing to foot the bill for all the casuals who leave then our voice is just as important as yours.
It sure is, but no more important, and if the "hardcore" are going to stick it out for longer than the casuals, then while your 8.99 a month is just as good as mine THIS month, if you are likely to quit anyway next month, then your money isn't worth squat to BW since they'll be losing it anyway.

I also object to the notion that PVE is where you should be caring about casuals. There are hardcore PVEers as well. In PVE there is never any confusion that the goal is to work together, and at the highest level that is not for casuals. Put in the time and effort to get better or stick to story mode. Is that possibly an argument for a "casuals" bracket? Perhaps, but with lower brackets come lower rewards.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
Question 4: Isn't this game awesome and people want to play?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, it definitely has its redeeming qualities for me otherwise I wouldn't be playing but it's technically flawed. Look I'm all for buying into your own brand but sitting there with your fingers in your ears regurgitating the mantra of "everything's fine, people want to play, everything's fine people want to play" isn't a realistic end game. Your game is in trouble, I can tell by the (small) number of people playing on the "heavy" server you people need to pull your finger out.

Look, at the moment your game feels like it's in debt recovery mode. The cartel shop looks like a money sink so you can re-balance your shareholders' books, then when that's done (or as close as they're willing to accept) you'll look at re-investing resources back into your game, or shut it down. Until then you're just going to leak already developed content (stuff beta no doubt) and back slowly away from the time bomb.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
To make this a little bit constructive, here's what you can do to immediately improve the game:

1. Make it a 4-man group requirement for ranked instead of 8 - two 4 man pre-made groups against two 4 man pre-made groups, there're already quite a lot of these roaming around in unranked now, so the queues will be better.
2. Make the pvp weekly a repeatable, not just a weekly which gives a better incentive of winning.
3. Put a limit on group size for unrated to two people, maybe even go so far as to share the rewards if you enter as a two-man, this will mix it up a lot more and stop us casuals.

I hope you people at Bioware / EA are listening to us, with Elder Scrolls: Online coming next year and Titan round the corner you really haven't got the luxury of time if you do have any intentions of making this game a long-term thing. I do admit I've rage-quitted my subscription a few times but I've never missed a month since release because I actually believe this game could be something brilliant, if only you'd listen to the people who actually play the game.
Listening to people who play the game is iffy. Some people are really smart, have great ideas, and should be listened to. Some people are dumb. Some people have brilliant ideas and are also dumb when it comes to other issues. Hard to separate the groups really, especially when some people seem to be both. Anyway, regarding your suggestions:

1) 4-8 Man ranked warzones seems like a good idea. Maybe with some sort of composition requirement, but this definitely has merit. I'd go so far as to say allow people to form groups of any size and throw them in the ranked queue. That way people with 6 people on could still queue. Have the matchmaking take into account how many different groups are being represented on a given team. Definite possibilities here.

2) Not sure what you mean here. Not entirely sure anyway. Still has potential though. More quests always a good thing. Gives people something to work towards.

3) I kinda disagree with this. As I said, I wanna play with my friends. A possibility if suggestion 1 gets implemented though I suppose.


Overall, a very nice and I think constructive post OP.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 03:05 AM | #23
why does the word "casual" mean you dont/cant group for PvP?

by definition, i am a "casual". i can play a couple hours at best when i can, and i cant play every day.

that doesnt stop me from being in a guild, or from grouping up when i am able to log in.

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
12.09.2012 , 02:54 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
why does the word "casual" mean you dont/cant group for PvP?

by definition, i am a "casual". i can play a couple hours at best when i can, and i cant play every day.

that doesnt stop me from being in a guild, or from grouping up when i am able to log in.
I am a casual pvper, I am in a guild too and i like the peeps that i game with. But casual to me means i just want to que up when i feel like it what ever time i feel like with out having to form a group. casual gamers make up the vast majority of players and BW is basically holding the door open for us to leave this game by allowing the pvp guilds to destroy us every match.

BW if you havent guessed this by now i will fill you in, a unhappy customer / a discouraged customer will not give you money for something they dislike. getting steamrolled most of the day does not add to happyness, it does not lead a F2Per to want to sub, no subs = no revenue. I wasnt sure if you knew this so i felt it would be a prudent course of action to fill in those missing details for you.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

DeepFreese's Avatar


DeepFreese
12.09.2012 , 03:29 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
To make this a little bit constructive, here's what you can do to immediately improve the game:

1. Make it a 4-man group requirement for ranked instead of 8 - two 4 man pre-made groups against two 4 man pre-made groups, there're already quite a lot of these roaming around in unranked now, so the queues will be better.
I have been trying to understand this option... as it is brought up all the time. Do the people who support this option play ranked? Because ranked is not a place where I wanna grab another 4 man premade. I want all 8 people on our team to have cohesion. Without it ranked fails... I also know people would not want to lose rating(I know it means almost nothing, but honestly what can we scale anything by if not rating) because they were grouped with a crappy 4 man hoping to get carried through easy comms. Ranked is not a place to screw around. Ranked is not a place to mix and match premades. Ranked is for 8 man teams made to work together, and they succeed because of the cohesion.
Creus
Robbs(Sniper) Robs(Assassin) Croozz(Jugg) Harata(Guardian) Se'an(Powertech) and Se-an(Marauder)
The Squirtle Squad[The Harbinger}

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
12.09.2012 , 03:29 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
1. Make it a 4-man group requirement for ranked instead of 8 - two 4 man pre-made groups against two 4 man pre-made groups, there're already quite a lot of these roaming around in unranked now, so the queues will be better.
this would make for more interesting WZs. I'm not sure about doing it for rated, but it might be a nice compromise to create an *optional* grp queue that grps can queue for. I'd be very interested to see how well that would work or if grps would avoid it the way they do rated.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

DeepFreese's Avatar


DeepFreese
12.09.2012 , 03:30 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
this would make for more interesting WZs. I'm not sure about doing it for rated, but it might be a nice compromise to create an *optional* grp queue that grps can queue for. I'd be very interested to see how well that would work or if grps would avoid it the way they do rated.
I agree with this. Just disagree about making it ranked warzones.
Creus
Robbs(Sniper) Robs(Assassin) Croozz(Jugg) Harata(Guardian) Se'an(Powertech) and Se-an(Marauder)
The Squirtle Squad[The Harbinger}

Lejune's Avatar


Lejune
12.09.2012 , 03:42 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
I know there are already one million threads on this issue (or feature, if you're a biowarebot) but I have to get this off my chest. Bioware, your pvp system is HORRIBLE. I've spent 3 hours this morning (trying to cap my comms to stand a chance for 1.6) losing. Not just losing, but being literally roflstomped and then forced to sit it out just for the points (I get more for defense medals than I do head-butting my way through concrete) - which gives me plenty of time to sit there and wonder why I'm playing this game AND paying for it.

Question 1: Why don't you just join a pre-made?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I play this game casually, I like to jump on play for an hour or two and then carry on with my life. I've asked to join pvp guilds, but ones who accept casual players are VERY hard to find and usually don't just let anyone join, they need to make sure you're good. I'm fully aware that unless I get involved in pvp this way then I'm sacrificing things like rated warzones and the best rewards (this game doesn't have many yet, though) but I'm happy to just stick to normal pvp - I want this to be MY choice.

Question 2: Do you think ALL pre-mades like going against PUGs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely not, in fact I feel pretty sorry for some of you. If you sat in the rated queues you'll probably get a match every couple of hours so I don't blame you doing unranked - but do you REALLY have to join every unranked with a group of 4, can't you just random it like everyone else for a bit of fun? I'm sure your pvp skills aren't exactly getting honed at the moment.

Question 3: Should we really care about casual players? Isn't that what pve is for?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should absolutely care about casual players, our £8.99/month is just as good as yours and unless you're willing to foot the bill for all the casuals who leave then our voice is just as important as yours.

Question 4: Isn't this game awesome and people want to play?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, it definitely has its redeeming qualities for me otherwise I wouldn't be playing but it's technically flawed. Look I'm all for buying into your own brand but sitting there with your fingers in your ears regurgitating the mantra of "everything's fine, people want to play, everything's fine people want to play" isn't a realistic end game. Your game is in trouble, I can tell by the (small) number of people playing on the "heavy" server you people need to pull your finger out.

Look, at the moment your game feels like it's in debt recovery mode. The cartel shop looks like a money sink so you can re-balance your shareholders' books, then when that's done (or as close as they're willing to accept) you'll look at re-investing resources back into your game, or shut it down. Until then you're just going to leak already developed content (stuff beta no doubt) and back slowly away from the time bomb.

To make this a little bit constructive, here's what you can do to immediately improve the game:

1. Make it a 4-man group requirement for ranked instead of 8 - two 4 man pre-made groups against two 4 man pre-made groups, there're already quite a lot of these roaming around in unranked now, so the queues will be better.
2. Make the pvp weekly a repeatable, not just a weekly which gives a better incentive of winning.
3. Put a limit on group size for unrated to two people, maybe even go so far as to share the rewards if you enter as a two-man, this will mix it up a lot more and stop us casuals.

I hope you people at Bioware / EA are listening to us, with Elder Scrolls: Online coming next year and Titan round the corner you really haven't got the luxury of time if you do have any intentions of making this game a long-term thing. I do admit I've rage-quitted my subscription a few times but I've never missed a month since release because I actually believe this game could be something brilliant, if only you'd listen to the people who actually play the game.
I love your post. I honestly believe that they don't want it to be a long term mmo either. I just don't see it going another full year with more than 1 us server... Still seeing numbers going down on my server

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
12.09.2012 , 04:50 PM | #29
Solution, play in your own premade. It's not hard to group with 3 other people. People premade because they don't want to get stuck with pugs who wear leveling greens, or don't call inc, or don't play objectives, or wear full PVE gear. Premades, despite popular belief, are not an exploit. There is a group queue button in the game. You can use it as well. Stop trying to punish those who want to minimize chances of bad pugs, or who just want to play with their friends.

And lastly, just because people premade doesn't mean they will always win. A pug can easily have a superior team composition that allows them to secure the victory. This has happened to every premade of the top pvp guilds on begeren colony, republic and imperial alike.
Manager of Basic Skills For A Better Society. We hand out <basic skill stim>s in PVP to those in need. A donation of 1000 credits can help maintain the basic skills of 10 players for a day. Thousands of Republic PVPers are in dire need of these stims. Head to your local Pub Fleet and donate now!

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 05:06 PM | #30
well i just spent a couple hours in an evil premade, and won 6 wzs in a row

in a shocking turn of events, NONE OF US WERE IN VOICE CHAT