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Yes ANOTHER gripe at premades in warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Yes ANOTHER gripe at premades in warzones

Rousso's Avatar


Rousso
12.08.2012 , 08:14 AM | #1
I know there are already one million threads on this issue (or feature, if you're a biowarebot) but I have to get this off my chest. Bioware, your pvp system is HORRIBLE. I've spent 3 hours this morning (trying to cap my comms to stand a chance for 1.6) losing. Not just losing, but being literally roflstomped and then forced to sit it out just for the points (I get more for defense medals than I do head-butting my way through concrete) - which gives me plenty of time to sit there and wonder why I'm playing this game AND paying for it.

Question 1: Why don't you just join a pre-made?
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I play this game casually, I like to jump on play for an hour or two and then carry on with my life. I've asked to join pvp guilds, but ones who accept casual players are VERY hard to find and usually don't just let anyone join, they need to make sure you're good. I'm fully aware that unless I get involved in pvp this way then I'm sacrificing things like rated warzones and the best rewards (this game doesn't have many yet, though) but I'm happy to just stick to normal pvp - I want this to be MY choice.

Question 2: Do you think ALL pre-mades like going against PUGs?
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Absolutely not, in fact I feel pretty sorry for some of you. If you sat in the rated queues you'll probably get a match every couple of hours so I don't blame you doing unranked - but do you REALLY have to join every unranked with a group of 4, can't you just random it like everyone else for a bit of fun? I'm sure your pvp skills aren't exactly getting honed at the moment.

Question 3: Should we really care about casual players? Isn't that what pve is for?
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You should absolutely care about casual players, our 8.99/month is just as good as yours and unless you're willing to foot the bill for all the casuals who leave then our voice is just as important as yours.

Question 4: Isn't this game awesome and people want to play?
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Not really, it definitely has its redeeming qualities for me otherwise I wouldn't be playing but it's technically flawed. Look I'm all for buying into your own brand but sitting there with your fingers in your ears regurgitating the mantra of "everything's fine, people want to play, everything's fine people want to play" isn't a realistic end game. Your game is in trouble, I can tell by the (small) number of people playing on the "heavy" server you people need to pull your finger out.

Look, at the moment your game feels like it's in debt recovery mode. The cartel shop looks like a money sink so you can re-balance your shareholders' books, then when that's done (or as close as they're willing to accept) you'll look at re-investing resources back into your game, or shut it down. Until then you're just going to leak already developed content (stuff beta no doubt) and back slowly away from the time bomb.

To make this a little bit constructive, here's what you can do to immediately improve the game:

1. Make it a 4-man group requirement for ranked instead of 8 - two 4 man pre-made groups against two 4 man pre-made groups, there're already quite a lot of these roaming around in unranked now, so the queues will be better.
2. Make the pvp weekly a repeatable, not just a weekly which gives a better incentive of winning.
3. Put a limit on group size for unrated to two people, maybe even go so far as to share the rewards if you enter as a two-man, this will mix it up a lot more and stop us casuals.

I hope you people at Bioware / EA are listening to us, with Elder Scrolls: Online coming next year and Titan round the corner you really haven't got the luxury of time if you do have any intentions of making this game a long-term thing. I do admit I've rage-quitted my subscription a few times but I've never missed a month since release because I actually believe this game could be something brilliant, if only you'd listen to the people who actually play the game.

DarthMaulUK's Avatar


DarthMaulUK
12.08.2012 , 08:25 AM | #2
/forceyawn
to strive to seek, to find. And not to yield.

Easpeak's Avatar


Easpeak
12.08.2012 , 08:33 AM | #3
What about "casuals" that like to group up together and then get "roflstoped", as you said it, because of that in ranked WZs?
Easpeax
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Biggilus's Avatar


Biggilus
12.08.2012 , 08:52 AM | #4
Someone got served up on fresh toast and wants to let all of us know about it.

Tears, lovely tears.

hunterthesloth's Avatar


hunterthesloth
12.08.2012 , 09:17 AM | #5
i always go pug and i roflstomp premades all the time, why, bacause i PRACTISE! I try and get better if you combined my total amount of warzones played it would equal (just an estimate across all my characters) almost 2500. You have to look back after each warzone and look at how to improve. Im not trying to get harsh but if you communicate with your group you can beat any premade!
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Rousso's Avatar


Rousso
12.08.2012 , 09:26 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by hunterthesloth View Post
i always go pug and i roflstomp premades all the time, why, bacause i PRACTISE! I try and get better if you combined my total amount of warzones played it would equal (just an estimate across all my characters) almost 2500. You have to look back after each warzone and look at how to improve. Im not trying to get harsh but if you communicate with your group you can beat any premade!
What do you do when you're one of the few who are trying to communicate but nobody else is? When you look at the score at the end and it's you and one / two others who have top damage, top medals, top healing, top defense whatever - basically you were the best the team had and you still lost 0 / 6 or 0 / 100% or whatever?

I agree with skill, you never stop learning any pvp system and you can always improve. What I'm saying is that it's very rare to get a team who actually co-operate, instead you're left with people who run around the middle of the map dpsing. I'm pretty sure the answer is "well, get a pre-made team then" but this isn't a realistic option for everyone.

ObiJuanShenobi's Avatar


ObiJuanShenobi
12.08.2012 , 09:26 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by hunterthesloth View Post
i always go pug and i roflstomp premades all the time, why, bacause i PRACTISE! I try and get better if you combined my total amount of warzones played it would equal (just an estimate across all my characters) almost 2500. You have to look back after each warzone and look at how to improve. Im not trying to get harsh but if you communicate with your group you can beat any premade!
Lol @ your nonsense
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Prisoner's Avatar


Prisoner
12.08.2012 , 09:32 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rousso View Post
Question 1: Why don't you just join a pre-made?
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I play this game casually, I like to jump on play for an hour or two and then carry on with my life. I've asked to join pvp guilds, but ones who accept casual players are VERY hard to find and usually don't just let anyone join, they need to make sure you're good. I'm fully aware that unless I get involved in pvp this way then I'm sacrificing things like rated warzones and the best rewards (this game doesn't have many yet, though) but I'm happy to just stick to normal pvp - I want this to be MY choice.
1) No one is stopping you from solo queueing. You can play without a premade team in this game. But expecting to have the same effectiveness as a solo player that a premade team does in an MMO, is pretty silly, as is asking the devs to gimp the people who actually get organized and play together.

2) You have some serious misconceptions about most guild premades. Do the few elite guilds have hardcore pvpers who play nonstop? Sure. But there are plenty of casual guilds, like mine, who do pretty decent four man groups with a very good win/loss ratio, who aren't made up of "elite" players, and can give even some of the top server teams a run for their money. I don't buy that these guilds are difficult to find. If I can find excellent part time pvpers on my freaking roleplay server, you shouldn't have a problem finding them on yours. You just have to make the effort of seeking them out. So stop whining about the top two or three pvp guilds on your server who won't take a player like you, and start looking for a good casual guild with pvpers who will.

Rousso's Avatar


Rousso
12.08.2012 , 09:45 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Prisoner View Post
1) No one is stopping you from solo queueing. You can play without a premade team in this game. But expecting to have the same effectiveness as a solo player that a premade team does in an MMO, is pretty silly, as is asking the devs to gimp the people who actually get organized and play together.
I'm absolutely not against pre-made groups, or co-operation. It's an MMO, co-operation is one of the main points of the game. I'm also not expecting to have anywhere near the same effectiveness solo as I would in a team. What I want is to have a pvp bracket I can jump in and play without having to organise a group first (what we have now is intended for this, but is monopolized by the few). This is an ADDITION, I'm not asking for anything to be taken away from people who organise themselves, but when you're stuck with terrible PUGs and you've been losing against the same pre-made of 4 all morning, you kind of want a break and to enjoy the time you're spending - everyone does, that's the point of playing a game.

If anyone wants a good, casual PVP player on the progenitor then let me know, because I can't find any in game.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.08.2012 , 10:10 AM | #10
Well lemme respond to those questions/statements first:

1. One to two hours is plenty of time to find some friends, and as the posters before me noted, it is nonsense that there aren't qany good "casual" pvp guilds on your server, or that PvP guilds won't let you in unless you aren't "casual."

Having listened in or even been part of "Top PvP" guild discussions for allowing a player to join almost the top reason for a denial is the player's skills. Did they call incs? Did they leave the node to chase enemies? Did they break someone's CC repeatedly for no reason? Etc...

The second top reason is almost always their attitude. I know of atleast one guild recently that denied a player because several of us noted he always leaves earlier if his team starts losing. Another player got denied for constantly trash talking in /say.

2. No response, other than joining a random solo when you have atleast 3 players is just stupid.

3. The biggest problem I have here is casual players getting lumped into one category. Most often then not I'm considered casual. I work, most weeks I can player 2, maybe 3 hours a day. I have a million alts (including many 50's) that I opted to play over my "main." I barely worry about optimizing, etc... Heck, I skipped my pvp daily for the last 3 days on my "main."

Please stop lumping casuals with "lazy casuals." Some of us/them understand that our choices are what is limiting the chances to win, and don't ***** about better players.

4. You have no actual data to determine ToR's status, or if/why people are leaving. This is just hearsay.

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Now for a few points of my own:

I agree pvp can be a bit lackluster especially with faction imbalance and for solo queue'rs. Luckily 1.6 is brining an end to the gear gap (despite slapping many players in the face with it) and BW's live stream Q&A promised better matchmaking is coming. Can we please stop complaining about the wrong thing, when Bioware is fixing the right things?