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Premades; Why we do it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades; Why we do it

Arunas's Avatar


Arunas
12.08.2012 , 03:21 AM | #1
Way back in august the SWTOR beta weekends were going and that was my first change to try SWTOR. I tried doing some warzone pvp, not quite sure what to expect and found them quite fun and was surprised to see that I was not doing that badly in PvP as I was not much of a PvP player and haven't played any MMO for ages.

Anyway, when the game went live I was PvPing a lot while questing, maybe for 30% of my total exp. I had no friends that were playing the game so I was playing alone. Back then there was one 1-50 bracket, but since I started in early access I was not behind the curve, still there were some higher level characters. Eventually people that played more or were more dedicated in playing one character only started dinging 50. Unsurprisingly people were really to complain about fighting max level characters in same warzones. Nobody had battlemaster yet but fighting high level character as a lowbie was still uphill battle.

I met some people that were good in PvP and we started forming a group and queing together. We did not use any voice but our teamwork was sufficient to 6:0 huttball back then. As time went my friend-list grew larger and there was always somebody online to queue with for pvp.

Quite a few of us went to a guild one friend founded. It was not a pvp guild per se; we were doing raiding and we used voice for that; eventually we started using voice for pvp too.

There were now few good guilds on both factions and games with them were really hard and competitive. Unfortunately people really did not liked that some games were getting decided by pug lottery - who got better pugs won. RWZs were being looked as something that would allow us to make full guild groups so we don't have to deal with random players. Alas the RWZs were pulled last minute for the patch they were supposed to come out with...

Rep teams had an advantage concerning pugs - since Republic population was lower they started sync queuing and were smashing imperial side really hard so people were rage-quitting warzones when they saw they are against Warden premade. We tried to do the same but it was very difficult to manage as there was too many imps queing so we usually got the 4 pugs vs 8 good enemy players (some of which were best pvpers on the whole server and we had worse gear too so it was one-sided as it gets).

RWZs came, then server merges but already a lot of people had left the game. Our server did not had enough PvP population and getting RWZs to pop was really hard.

At the present there are about 2 good republic and 2 good imperial guilds on our server Progenitor. Apparently the guilds on each faction do not get along well enough to do combined ranked. Also because my guild and rep guild basically has alts playing in each other we are on friendly terms and tried to make balanced groups on each side to have rwzs happen. Basically organizing rwzs is like organizing 16-man raid, except it is very difficult to get balanced teams going and if there is nobody else queing (90% of the time) then if the first game is one-sided because of player skill, gear and composition and you cannot change that there is no point doing more as the outcome will be the same. Neither the losing teams want to be farmed nor the winning one to have one-sided unfun match.

So the normal warzones are the only practical means to get some pvp going and we make groups and we sync queue so the few guildies that don't have full group end up on the same side as us. Most of the time is not fun for us or the other side, unless we happen to meet double premade with double premade on our side which is practically like a ranked game and it results in nerve-wracking, intense games.

We are all mostly 26+ years old, some of us already dads and moms with various occupations but we all share the same passion and interest in SWTOR and its pvp just happens to be something we like doing most here.

So the premade dilemma is this: Premades don't want to play with PUGs, PUGs don't want to play against premades and since there are no cross server queues RWZs are unfeasible on our server so we all get to play in same warzones and make each other angry at each other.

Well if all the people you meed were good nobody would have this problem and the games would be less one-sided (btw there is even free community voice chat for everybody on our server but nobody but our guilds use it...). Alas you still get to meet some guys that decide to join wz in lvl40 greens but mostly they just ignore objectives, dpsing irrelevant targets like tanks or having their little duels in the middle of nowhere. I have to say if you do the same and you get 7 people like that on your team you don't really have the right to cry about premades because organized pug of good players will stomp you just the same.

Valkyrst's Avatar


Valkyrst
12.08.2012 , 03:32 AM | #2
Which guild are you in?

Vladnar's Avatar


Vladnar
12.08.2012 , 03:53 AM | #3
Youre points are of course extremely valid and you can only play the system that stands before you, and playing with friends and trying to win only makes sense.

I would say its the system people are hoping to change rather than anything against the premades themselves, though some don't fully realise that.

Pugs full of players completely random who don't know each other and are just teaming up and doing their best, no so many healers and so many warriors or whatever, but a complete mish-mosh is extremely great fun but not when your'e against an organised band.....i find myself to be half the time with decent players and half with less experienced and just make the best to enjoy it all round and until they sort out the Ranked scenario then team building practice makes sense anyway.

They should-

1-Sort proper ranked system for premade teams and i think it should be teams of 4 or 8 to join, as 8 can be tricky as the good thing about pvp is you're up for it all day, rinse and repeat, but teams of 4 should always be easy to find...i also like the idea of pug queuing for ranked to help fill holes, but in agreeing that you will be going into ranked matches only so they will be tough, maybe there can be valor/gear requirement to queue.

2-Pure single queue pug only for random pug wz pvp, this of course doesn't stop you all jumping on ts3 or mumble, actually communicating with each other OR all your mates hitting the queue button at the same time and see if you get in together.

These 2 should put the whole arguement to bed and you get what you get, but at the end of the day IF YOU DONT like premades, JOIN ONE YOURSELF....can't beat em, join em.

Im not going to cos i like to just picking up pvp and dropping as and when, sometimes a game or 2 is enough, im far too busy in RL to commit to hours of play at any time it depends what i have going on or coming up.


I think everyone just needs to get on with doing their best and just enjoying pvp for what it is, too much worrying about rateds or class imbalance or gear or whatever...just do what you can and what will be will, dont let it get you down....is a game and a fun one at that.
The time of the Empire is now truly upon us

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
12.08.2012 , 06:11 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Arunas View Post
So the normal warzones are the only practical means to get some pvp going and we make groups and we sync queue so the few guildies that don't have full group end up on the same side as us. Most of the time is not fun for us or the other side, unless we happen to meet double premade with double premade on our side which is practically like a ranked game and it results in nerve-wracking, intense games.
So why do you do that, lol? This kills me... oh we cant get a rated game so we'll just take our 6 or 7 guildies into non-ranked then complain about the non-fun unfair matches? What?

Why dont you split up, play AGAINST your other guildies... that's a lot of fun too. What's this obsession with HAVING to take your team of 4 premades into non-ranked pug warzones... just split up into pairs or whatever and play what comes. Anything less is just making excuses for wanting to farm pugs.

BaineOs's Avatar


BaineOs
12.08.2012 , 08:11 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Polebreaker View Post
So why do you do that, lol? This kills me... oh we cant get a rated game so we'll just take our 6 or 7 guildies into non-ranked then complain about the non-fun unfair matches? What?

Why dont you split up, play AGAINST your other guildies... that's a lot of fun too. What's this obsession with HAVING to take your team of 4 premades into non-ranked pug warzones... just split up into pairs or whatever and play what comes. Anything less is just making excuses for wanting to farm pugs.
A good post by the original poster and it's obvious you completely missed the point dude.
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Prisoner's Avatar


Prisoner
12.08.2012 , 09:35 AM | #6
Great post, and I pretty much agree with everything here, but I'm sorry to say that it's pretty much going to be completely ignored by the mouth-frothing anti premade crowd.

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
12.08.2012 , 09:38 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by BaineOs View Post
A good post by the original poster and it's obvious you completely missed the point dude.
Maybe you could distill it down to something shorter and less meandering, then, as all I took from it was, "We like playing together, no x-server ranked and not enough people to do it on our server, so tough ***** puggers, we wanna play and dont care if we're part of the problem."

Godlymuppet's Avatar


Godlymuppet
12.08.2012 , 09:47 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
Which guild are you in?
I'm guessing sith dominion or requiem. It really is nasty getting in to a sync with you guys. We just get farmed. It least I try to get the pugs I'm in to target your healers so they will get fed up lol. Having said that, it is great fun if we are a bit more organised as we do have some pretty decent rep pug players and the community spirit is unified by you guys, we all hate you lol.

People do give up quite often when they get farmed by premades though. I'll try to get people motivated since we are stuck in there with you anyway, but that doesn't always happen. The worst thing is people think its ok to quit if they see your name, which makes things worse. They need to fix quitters as a matter of priority.
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CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.08.2012 , 10:25 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Arunas View Post
Rep teams had an advantage concerning pugs - since Republic population was lower they started sync queuing and were smashing imperial side really hard so people were rage-quitting warzones when they saw they are against Warden premade. We tried to do the same but it was very difficult to manage as there was too many imps queing so we usually got the 4 pugs vs 8 good enemy players (some of which were best pvpers on the whole server and we had worse gear too so it was one-sided as it gets).

At the present there are about 2 good republic and 2 good imperial guilds on our server Progenitor.
That's a ridiculous notion, PuGs on the rep side are a joke 99% of the time. Sometimes you get grouped with people grom great guilds like Salvation, Insight. The Ancients etc. but most of the time I'm seeing people from noname guilds on my team or they might not even be in a guild.

Requiem I always have the fun of bumping into as a PuG and lately I've seen people who desert at the sight of their name tag. They don't even wait until they (ineviably) cap 2 nodes or turrets, they just say "requiem premade....can't win....i'm out." or they don't even say anything at all. I always stay and do my part but winning against premades like that is next to impossible.

Someone stated before that if you communicate, you can beat any premade. It's ********. Even at equal gear and balanced classes, people who are used to playing with each other will have an advantage. And gear and classes are everything but balanced and premades tend to gravitate towards the strongest classes naturally.

I'm not call you out for trying to be the best and grats on being the best but I would like if guilds like yours would go against guilds of same caliber, so pugs vs premades wouldn't be so extremely one-sided.
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Raynezazki's Avatar


Raynezazki
12.08.2012 , 11:21 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Godlymuppet View Post
I'm guessing sith dominion or requiem. It really is nasty getting in to a sync with you guys. We just get farmed. It least I try to get the pugs I'm in to target your healers so they will get fed up lol. Having said that, it is great fun if we are a bit more organised as we do have some pretty decent rep pug players and the community spirit is unified by you guys, we all hate you lol.

People do give up quite often when they get farmed by premades though. I'll try to get people motivated since we are stuck in there with you anyway, but that doesn't always happen. The worst thing is people think its ok to quit if they see your name, which makes things worse. They need to fix quitters as a matter of priority.
No no they don't. You shouldn't be punished for leaving a curb stomp battle. Especially since there's a good chance you won't even get three medals and end up wasting your time for no comms.