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Kaggath Series: Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.07.2012 , 01:40 PM | #1
“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Round 6: Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow

Welcome to the sixth instalment of the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ in which I’ll be pitting the power bases of iconic Star Wars characters against each other.

The last battle, Darth Plagueis vs G0-T0, was unexpected victory for G0-T0, for Plagueis’ lack of precognition sealed his fate when G0-T0 exposed the Sith Lord and assassinated him with a squad HK-50s. But onto round six.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simply lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, a star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s just go over the ground rules again:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Gav Daragon. (Concerning the Brotherhood of Darkness however, no members are prominent enough to be excluded)
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No superweapons e.g. Supernova, Force bomb.
  • Technology level is universal: blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. This is especially poignant for this battle; it is only classed as archaic if it was deemed so in that era.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.

So, the combatants: Lord Kaan was a charismatic leader, skilled strategist and powerful warrior. He exceptionally skilled in the use of mind tricks and proficient in battle meditation. Naga Sadow was ambitious, ruthless, intelligent and manipulative. He was an accomplished Sith sorcerer and master of generating Force illusions.

Kaan was the de facto leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness, a dark perversion of the Jedi Order with an armada of Sith, soldiers and ships at its disposal. While Naga Sadow commanded the hordes of Massassi Warriors and Sith spawn of the ancient Sith Empire – led by their Sith masters. Both empires shook the Republic and its Jedi protectors to the core, but who will win? Which order is stronger?

Let the Kaggath begin!

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
12.07.2012 , 03:24 PM | #2
Just thinking out loud here but they both had powerful meditation abilities, with Kaan having "normal" battle meditation and Sadow's mass of illusions (this required for him to be on his personal meditation spire). Sadow's illusions were powerful enough to actually injure people which is practically having the ability to make your own soldiers. To me, it all really comes down to whether or not Sadow has control of Korriban. If he didn't have control of Korriban, he'd need to create another area where he could meditate with just as much focus, which would take time, likely enough time so that the brotherhood of darkness could gain a few key victories over sadow's forces.

(Questions, is Kaan driven to the dark side yet, and when you say sith-spawn, does that include tarentateks?)

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.07.2012 , 05:58 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Segastorm View Post
Just thinking out loud here but they both had powerful meditation abilities, with Kaan having "normal" battle meditation and Sadow's mass of illusions (this required for him to be on his personal meditation spire). Sadow's illusions were powerful enough to actually injure people which is practically having the ability to make your own soldiers. To me, it all really comes down to whether or not Sadow has control of Korriban. If he didn't have control of Korriban, he'd need to create another area where he could meditate with just as much focus, which would take time, likely enough time so that the brotherhood of darkness could gain a few key victories over sadow's forces.

(Questions, is Kaan driven to the dark side yet, and when you say sith-spawn, does that include tarentateks?)
Yes this is dark side Kaan - but not loco crazy dark side Kaan. And I'm sure that Sadow used his meditation sphere over a random star, not Korriban. As for Sith war beasts, I'll check the details later but I don't remember seeing any mention of terateneks, just sith worms etc - still deadly though.

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Aurbere
12.07.2012 , 06:08 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes this is dark side Kaan - but not loco crazy dark side Kaan. And I'm sure that Sadow used his meditation sphere over a random star, not Korriban. As for Sith war beasts, I'll check the details later but I don't remember seeing any mention of terateneks, just sith worms etc - still deadly though.
Yeah, Naga Sadow hovered near a star. If Naga Sadow can remain hidden, he could very well win this. The only reason his assault on Coruscant and other worlds failed is because his apprentice attacked him. This, in conjunction with the wisdom of such Jedi as Odan-Urr and Ooroo, caused his illusions to lose their effect. But it was his apprentice attacking him that caused his illusion to fail.

This should be a close one regardless.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

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Segastorm
12.07.2012 , 09:19 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Yeah, Naga Sadow hovered near a star. If Naga Sadow can remain hidden, he could very well win this. The only reason his assault on Coruscant and other worlds failed is because his apprentice attacked him. This, in conjunction with the wisdom of such Jedi as Odan-Urr and Ooroo, caused his illusions to lose their effect. But it was his apprentice attacking him that caused his illusion to fail.

This should be a close one regardless.
What do you mean could? Unless Kaan knew of Sadow's ability to do that as well as a way to fight it off, Sadow has a very large advantage. (What happens beyond the first 2 times or when Kaan learns of these illusions is however, unclear to me.

But yes, I agree, this will be close.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.08.2012 , 12:31 AM | #6
It'll likely come down to who wins the first major engagement. If Sadow wins, Kaan will fold under the pressure. The only possible salvation for Kaan if he looses the first battle is either he realizes that his enemies are mostly illusions as he retreats, or he finds Sadow's meditation sphere. If he does either of these he has a chance.

If Kaan wins the first battle, he stands a good chance of winning. Here, Sadow will have to hope Kaan doesn't realize his army is mostly composed of illusions. If Kaan knows, Kaan will likely win. If Kaan doesn't, still an uphill battle for Kaan and it'd be about 50-50.

Personally, I think Sadow would likely win the first battle and Kaan would be non the wiser of his deception making it a Sadow victory. But that first battle will be brutal for both sides.

As for a 1v1 duel. I don't think it'll come to that but if it does, I might give the edge to Kaan but I can't give you a good reason why.

Curious, can Sadow use his illusions during multiple battles at the same time? And can he rebuild an enitre army of illusions after each battle? If yes to either of these, Sadow's odds just hugely improved in my opinion.
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ReiKai
12.08.2012 , 12:40 AM | #7
I would like to say that Naga Sadow can't just create supernovas. This was a special case involving an Unstable Red Super Giant star. All he needed to do was pull at it and set off a chain reaction which resulted in it going nova. It's not something he can do to any ol star.

And as for the Thought Bomb Ritual, it wasn't something Kaan could do on his own. It took the remaining leaders of the Dark Brotherhood (all of whom Kaan said were on Equal standing as Lords), as well as all their remaining followers in order to create it. Though it did kill the Hundred odd Jedi that came to stop him and drove the local force sensitive creatures mad, it was also a Suicide Move in that Kaan and all of the Dark Brotherhood were killed as well when it was activated. It has the potential to affect everything on a planetary scale, but Kaan and his group just didn't have that kind of power, and while Darth Bane felt the effects of it, he was relatively unharmed by it.

As for mental prowess. Kaan could use his Battle Meditation via a Meditation Chamber to bolster his forces in his Fleet. However he had difficulty as he wasn't as adept at using this ability as others in the Jedi Order and would've lost in a fleet battle had Kas'im not boarded the Republic ship and killed the Jedi Sage whom Kaan was locked against in a battle of wills. As far as I am aware from the novels, Kaan's Battle Meditation seemed to function within a limited range. Naga Sadow's, however, was affecting multiple battle groups spread across multiple different worlds within Republic Space at the same time. This gives Sadow a greater range of effect and a definite advantage in battle.
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SoranPanoko
12.08.2012 , 05:15 AM | #8
Kaan's Empire was much bigger then Naga Sadow's. So Kaan would win ecause he have the igger Army and so on

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.08.2012 , 09:28 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
As for a 1v1 duel. I don't think it'll come to that but if it does, I might give the edge to Kaan but I can't give you a good reason why.
IMO I think Naga Sadow would win a 1v1 duel. While Kaan is by no means weak, his powers lie in mind tricks.
Quote:
Curious, can Sadow use his illusions during multiple battles at the same time? And can he rebuild an enitre army of illusions after each battle? If yes to either of these, Sadow's odds just hugely improved in my opinion.
Aurbere is probably the person to answer this one. I expect he can 'rebuild' his illusions again though.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
12.08.2012 , 10:59 AM | #10
Kaan really didn't have some large empire and, as stated, he did not control it all himself. Because of the manner in which he had built the Sith Order, anyone with the title of Lord was equal in standing to himself. And while he may be considered the ring leader and the one with the most charisma of the group, he would still only command a part of the Brotherhood and not the whole of their forces.

As for Naga Sadow. At the time, half of the Dark Council agreed with him and followed him as the "Dark Lord of the Sith", with Ludo Kressh and the other half claiming differently. Sadow commanded a large force as well as his Massasi warriors and he was a powerful Sorcerer as well as skilled in melee combat. At the time, Sadow and Kressh were the two most powerful Sith under Marka Ragnos (perhaps beside Vitiate), though I guess that isn't saying much when Ragnos was so flippin powerful they were all terrified of him, even up to the point of him dying of old age (Ragnos seemingly choosing not to extend his life via dark arts like Sadow did).

In terms of power, knowledge and ability, it's clear Naga Sadow stands head and shoulders above Kaan in this respect. In terms of armies, I would say that perhaps Kaans is a bit larger. However at the time of the Great Hyperspace War, Sadow's army was smaller than the Republic's, but still caused considerable damage due to his mass illusions and made his invading forces appear three-times more numerous than they actually were.
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