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Tanking Stat Weights


Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.15.2013 , 07:48 AM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by Toolzy View Post
Has there been any talk or hint from devs that they may rework the mitigation on shadows?
Afaik, they've been pretty mum on the subject. I don't know if this is because of their normal incredibly tight-lipped tendencies or because they think the problem is either acceptable (such that they don't really *care* that Shadows are incredibly spiky compared to the other tanks) or that it is only present for right now and will eventually take care of itself (since Shadows are so dependent on mitigation stats, it's a major concern right now and will start to occur less and less frequently as gear gets better and mitigation budgets continue to rise, just like it did at release compared to 1.7).

I do remember there being a lot of talk about Shadow survivability on the PTS with a lot of us Shadow theorycrafters telling everyone that total mitigation actually went up, but I don't believe any of us really paid attention to quantifying the increase in spikiness (not to mention that most of us assumed that bad Shadow tanks on the PTS were simply bad Shadows or people adapting to the new Shadow priority/CD paradigm and lower percentage rather than people dumbfounded by the increased spikiness). After a month of playing, however, it's become pretty obvious that it's simply a case where, even though total mitigation got better, survivability got dropped pretty heavily because of the spikiness getting shot up so I dearly hope that they at least realize that it's a problem that needs to be looked at (since, with their new DR curves on Shield/Abs, it's gonna take a *lot* more itemization until we get to a point where the spikiness is mitigated sufficiently) rather than thinking it's working perfectly fine.

I've had a discussion with a few people about what the best solution might be, and it's always turned out to be a pretty difficult concept. Increasing DR to reduce spikiness sufficiently would necessitate dropping our Def/Shield/Abs and none of those are particularly appetizing, since we Shadows tend to be *very* attached to our mitigation percentages (especially Shield rating, which is where we'd probably take the biggest hit with a reduction to KW's Shield buff since it's so monumentally huge).

The best solution I've thought of that largely preserves our current stats while smoothing out the incoming damage a bit more would be causing any overheal from TkT or CT (or, potentially, any overhealing from the Shadow on herself by any amount so that it works with Battle Readiness, med pacs, and the heal proc relics) to create an absorb shield on the Shadow for the amount of the overheal. It would allow Shadows to "pre-heal" themselves to get ready for big hits as well as letting a Shadow build up a bit of survivability during a period of good luck to prepare for when their luck will inevitably decide to leave them in the lurch, not to mention increasing the "one shot" cushion for attacks like Terminate that the other tanks can actually *tank* and Shadows have to pray Resilience works on or they can get a successful Shield. Probably the best thing about it is that it wouldn't require any tweaking to our current mitigation stats: our self healing is already factored in; all this would do would make sure that Shadow self healing is *never* wasted and works for you no matter when it happens. The only caveat I can think of is that it would probably need an explicit cap of some kind, like 15% of max hp or something, so an offtanking Shadow can't just keep pushing that absorb shield up in size until they just stop taking damage for 30 seconds when they take over.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
05.15.2013 , 10:31 AM | #242
Or they could give us back all the armor they stole.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
05.15.2013 , 11:02 AM | #243
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It's actually better to use 4 set Campaign until you get 2 piece Arkanian/Underworld Survivor's because the loss of DR from the lower armor is less than the 2% you gain from having the 4 piece set bonus. Once you get 2 piece Arkanian, your DR is going to drop (by a little over 1%), but the 5% additional shield is going to provide you with more average mitigation.



Once you get 4 piece Arkanian, it's better to get rid of any remaining old set bonuses. The shield bonus is nice, but it's not large enough to offset the increase in DR from both the higher armor *and* the 4 pc set bonus combined.
Would you recommend the same for a jugg tank ? I currently have 4 campaing armorings for the bonus. Everything else is 69s except some crafted sturdiness/inmunity 66s enhancements. The first bonus is nice, but what I'm really reluctant to give up is the 20% bonus to our Sonic Barrier.

I really am enjoying tanking with my jugg now. Kinda bad that all tanking spots on my guild are taken, otherwise I would seriously consider using her as my "main" instead of my mara. Pugging operations sucks, so it'll be while until I'm able to get the 4 new armorings for the bonus. le sigh...

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
05.15.2013 , 12:49 PM | #244
Here is a post that concludes that the armor rating you gain by going from 63 to 72 is better than the set bonus as long as the incoming damage exceeds 2500

http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=540

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
05.16.2013 , 07:25 AM | #245
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
Here is a post that concludes that the armor rating you gain by going from 63 to 72 is better than the set bonus as long as the incoming damage exceeds 2500

http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=540
Thank you

But kinda sort of like not what I wanted to hear. Gear with no bonus set feels so lackluster

Moradeth's Avatar


Moradeth
05.16.2013 , 11:29 AM | #246
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
Here is a post that concludes that the armor rating you gain by going from 63 to 72 is better than the set bonus as long as the incoming damage exceeds 2500

http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=540
Thanks dipstik, wow you ninja edited the hell out of me My math was way off... but good to know, thanks for the work!

Fallerup's Avatar


Fallerup
05.19.2013 , 12:02 AM | #247
for us none math geniouses out there, may I get a simple question answered?

As an assassin and Juggernaut tank, what would my Ideal D/S/A be? ratings would be nice too. at 50, it was, for assassins: 27/40/65 if I'm not mistaken (27/60/65 with self buff).

I'm still debating what tank to play. I like the juggernaut better, but I find it way harder to play because of aggro issues, but I guess I'm just out of practise.
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Kytea's Avatar


Kytea
05.19.2013 , 01:37 AM | #248
Quote: Originally Posted by Fallerup View Post
for us none math geniouses out there, may I get a simple question answered?

As an assassin and Juggernaut tank, what would my Ideal D/S/A be? ratings would be nice too. at 50, it was, for assassins: 27/40/65 if I'm not mistaken (27/60/65 with self buff).

I'm still debating what tank to play. I like the juggernaut better, but I find it way harder to play because of aggro issues, but I guess I'm just out of practise.

The math is simple, no need to be a genious. All you need to know is how to add numbers.

Add up the ratings you currently have for def, sh and abs. That's your total.

Take that total. Look up the relevant table in the first post. Find the closest total.
Then, the next three numbers are your def, shi and abs that you should have.

If you still have dififculties with this, tell us what your current def, shield and absorb ratings are, we'll tell you what they should be.
It's not impossible. It's just improbable.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
05.19.2013 , 02:04 AM | #249
Hey Dipstick and Keyboardninja, really appriciate all the hard math work you are pulling of here.

I have a question about the statdistribution. Am I hampering my team for a great deal for HM opses like TfB and S&V if I use more absorbstats and less defense stats then you two advocate?
I want to play the game the way I like it to do, until recently I really liked to be 'absorbking'. However ... on the other hand, I'm a bit a min-maxer too and I dont want to seriously hamper my team if I tank a TfB HM or S&V HM.

FYI, pre 2.0 I ran with my VG-tank HM opses with 12%-15% defensechance. This is including all bonusses you can get.

A 2nd question I have is about going for the 72 verpinearmoring or 69 arkanian. Is it worth to lose the 4 set (and/or potentially 2-set) and getting more HP+armorrating?
I saw a post back in this thread that you should favor 72 verpine over 63 dg.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.19.2013 , 09:39 AM | #250
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
Am I hampering my team for a great deal for HM opses like TfB and S&V if I use more absorbstats and less defense stats then you two advocate?
Unless you're completely ignoring one stat for another (i.e. taking absolutely no Defense and stacking only Shield), it's not likely you'll experience a *massive* difference. People clear content without ever checking or using the optimal stat distribution all the time. Hell, people clear the content using almost entirely Endurance gear and that is pretty much as bad as you can get as a tank. The optimal stat distributions are, just that, optimal. If you don't want to hold yourself to them, you're going to take more damage, but it will, by no means, severely hamper your group as long as you're still doing everything else we recommend (high mitigation, decent hp, etc).

Quote:
A 2nd question I have is about going for the 72 verpinearmoring or 69 arkanian. Is it worth to lose the 4 set (and/or potentially 2-set) and getting more HP+armorrating?
The loss of 2% defense alone is going to make up for more than you gain from the increased armor. The loss of the increased duration on Reactive Shield and Riot Gas are just going to make it worse. 2% Defense is a *lot*, especially now that VGs actually *like* Defense.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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