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[XXX] Answers Questions Regarding Statistics

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
[XXX] Answers Questions Regarding Statistics
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.04.2012 , 04:45 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
Nah. Among other variables, an anomaly in K/D ratio would be a fine red flag indicating something was out of whack.

Granted, it certainly shouldn't be the foremost and only stat for PvP, and it isn't. The guy was asked for a stat by the interviewer so he provided one. He's not even a PvP Dev. Dude just compiles statistical data and passes it along to the teams that need it. You guys are overreacting.
kills =/= kills in this game. kill totals in warzones are Kills + Assists. if you hover over it you will see "kills", "deathblows", "and solo kills". because this game awards a kill to anyone that basically looks at the enemy that dies, KDR is in no way a representation of how a player performed. if the game awarded kills to only the person who did the most damage to the target, and an assist to everyone else, then KDR would mean something

and im pretty sure that they dont use KDR to balance anything (for the reason i just laid out), i think youre right that the guy just spewed out the first metric that came to mind.

Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I did skim through it and was surprised by that too...

Personally I didn't expect PvP to be so strong in comparison... shall we start an uprising?
the devs have acknowledged PvP as a majority playstyle for a while. back in Feb or March a dev said that >50% of players participated in wzs, while ~35% participated in endgame Ops. why they have not made more effort to improve PvP, which clearly a large part of their playerbase enjoys, is beyond me
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fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.04.2012 , 04:47 PM | #42
You shouldn't be using metrics on normal WZ with normal players- that's what led to the worst nerfs in the history of mmos in 1.2. Most of those nerfs were based off complaints back when the game had only one level 10-50 bracket, and almost nobody had full champion, much less BM.

They shouldn't have made such large balancing changes on such bad info.

Frankly- they came out with a preseason. They should have waited for stats from the pre-season RWZ and then made necessary changes. Do you think sorcs, mercs and ops would have gotten such large nerfs early on to dps when current stats show them as almost never being taken for dps slots in RWZ? I'd hope not.

RWZ is where skilled players are- pvp should be balanced around skilled players, not the whines of people who weren't capable of interrupting tracer missile spam or who honestly thought sorcs needed a nerf to their STEALTH ability.

Pre season doesn't need to be balanced before hand, it's preseason after all it's like a big long testing ground so that when you entire season 1 of RWZ you have balance. Balancing before hand was idiotic and it cost them big on the pvp population of the classes hit hardest by the nerfs.


It would be like planning out months of test firing a space shuttle- but sending people into space before you did that- it's backwards thinking that makes me think they don't actually understand what preseason is for, and put it in there because they saw other successful pvp games do so.

Furthermore- they refuse to show any of their statistics off- which only means that either metrics don't exist at all or they show something that doesn't match up with what they're saying. Of course- because of poor balancing there may not be enough RWZ teams anyway for there to be good metrics to use.

thamightyboro's Avatar


thamightyboro
12.04.2012 , 04:50 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
lol - you'd be surprised how many average guilds will bring in a commando - even a grav spammer. lol

speaking of which, is it just me, or do the grav spammers in reg wz's dwarf the number of assault specs? I mean...c'mmon.

Because assault isn't this god of mobility that people seem to think.

Gunnery full auto, grav static demo round and HIB mobile.

Assault full auto, charged rounds static HIB and AP mobile. If your unlucky with procs you can spend the whole Rail Shot, AP cooldown's static just trying to get it to frickin trigger with crap damage of those skills that offer no lowering of armour etc

They are both as mobile or static (choose your terminology) as each other and both put out very similar DPS on rare occasions if the Assault spec has had the proc gods with them sure they can do a bit better but Assault will never be remotely near what a VG can put out.
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.04.2012 , 04:50 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
You shouldn't be using metrics on normal WZ with normal players- that's what led to the worst nerfs in the history of mmos in 1.2. Most of those nerfs were based off complaints back when the game had only one level 10-50 bracket, and almost nobody had full champion, much less BM.

They shouldn't have made such large balancing changes on such bad info.

Frankly- they came out with a preseason. They should have waited for stats from the pre-season RWZ and then made necessary changes. Do you think sorcs, mercs and ops would have gotten such large nerfs early on to dps when current stats show them as almost never being taken for dps slots in RWZ? I'd hope not.

RWZ is where skilled players are- pvp should be balanced around skilled players, not the whines of people who weren't capable of interrupting tracer missile spam or who honestly thought sorcs needed a nerf to their STEALTH ability.

Pre season doesn't need to be balanced before hand, it's preseason after all it's like a big long testing ground so that when you entire season 1 of RWZ you have balance. Balancing before hand was idiotic and it cost them big on the pvp population of the classes hit hardest by the nerfs.


It would be like planning out months of test firing a space shuttle- but sending people into space before you did that- it's backwards thinking that makes me think they don't actually understand what preseason is for, and put it in there because they saw other successful pvp games do so.

Furthermore- they refuse to show any of their statistics off- which only means that either metrics don't exist at all or they show something that doesn't match up with what they're saying. Of course- because of poor balancing there may not be enough RWZ teams anyway for there to be good metrics to use.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
12.04.2012 , 04:51 PM | #45
Metric I'd most like to see: % of each AC on WINNING ranked warzone teams, further broken down by the talent tree with the most points in it.
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.04.2012 , 04:52 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Metric I'd most like to see: % of each AC on WINNING ranked warzone teams, further broken down by the talent tree with the most points in it.
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UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.04.2012 , 04:54 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
You shouldn't be using metrics on normal WZ with normal players- that's what led to the worst nerfs in the history of mmos in 1.2. Most of those nerfs were based off complaints back when the game had only one level 10-50 bracket, and almost nobody had full champion, much less BM.

They shouldn't have made such large balancing changes on such bad info.

Frankly- they came out with a preseason. They should have waited for stats from the pre-season RWZ and then made necessary changes. Do you think sorcs, mercs and ops would have gotten such large nerfs early on to dps when current stats show them as almost never being taken for dps slots in RWZ? I'd hope not.

RWZ is where skilled players are- pvp should be balanced around skilled players, not the whines of people who weren't capable of interrupting tracer missile spam or who honestly thought sorcs needed a nerf to their STEALTH ability.

Pre season doesn't need to be balanced before hand, it's preseason after all it's like a big long testing ground so that when you entire season 1 of RWZ you have balance. Balancing before hand was idiotic and it cost them big on the pvp population of the classes hit hardest by the nerfs.


It would be like planning out months of test firing a space shuttle- but sending people into space before you did that- it's backwards thinking that makes me think they don't actually understand what preseason is for, and put it in there because they saw other successful pvp games do so.

Furthermore- they refuse to show any of their statistics off- which only means that either metrics don't exist at all or they show something that doesn't match up with what they're saying. Of course- because of poor balancing there may not be enough RWZ teams anyway for there to be good metrics to use.
I think by far the most surprising thing about this comment...


is it made sense to me and I agree with most of it.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.04.2012 , 04:57 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Metric I'd most like to see: % of each AC on WINNING ranked warzone teams, further broken down by the talent tree with the most points in it.
DPS Operative: < 1%

DPS Mercenary: < 1%

DPS Sorcerer: 3%

Healing Operative: > 99%

Carnage Marauder: > 99%

Pyrotech Powertech: 92%

Shieldtech Powertech: 4%

You get the idea...

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.04.2012 , 05:56 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Metric I'd most like to see: % of each AC on WINNING ranked warzone teams, further broken down by the talent tree with the most points in it.
Personally I'd like to see them all.

Yes- I know, damage/healing/KDR, etc... you can look at any stat and say 'well there's this reason for it'. For example, it's easier to get more damage against teams with more healing and where you're alive the whole time, it's easier to get more 'kills' if you have aoe and dots even if you might not actually be killing as much.

Even solo kills only would prove the class is perhaps a better 1v1 class.

But- if we do see a trend of certain ACs being never wanted or always wanted- that would be a bit helpful.

I think overall all the data- including things like metrics on damage potential in 5 or 10 second bursts, amount of time spent CCed, DPS and time spent able to do DPS or healing, etc... all together though could tell us some things.

And seeing as this is data on how we are performing- it shouldn't be kept top secret from us.

This is me thinking here- if I had a game that was honestly balanced, and I honestly felt like my metrics supported my balance- I'd be happy to show it because it would quell a large chunk of the unrest. It's hard to support crying nerf or buff for classes when you have available stats that disprove the people asking for those things. However- when there's no stats you're stuck with everyone spouting opinions which are supported at best by skilled play, or at worst by 'last WZ I got pwnd by this class NERF!!!'.

It divides even the opinions of the best players whereas if those stats were available- players who know a bit about pvp could agree on more even at opposing sides of the coin. We don't really know what's going on- even when people put up their take on 100 games played at RWZ, these are the stats (at great expense to their own time to compile that data)- it may just be that server only has two RWZ teams so of course if neither has a merc on them you'll never see a merc, etc....

If we instead have data on tens of thousands of RWZ matches above 2000 rating (let's assume there has been that many...) and still see 'oh, there's 1% of players being mercs' that gives a much better idea of the balancing- true, being an overplayed or underplayed class doesn't necessarily mean the class sucks/owns, but in rated if you see a great disparity chances are the RWZ leaders aren't taking those classes for a specific reason.


Perfect balance is impossible- but I don't think we're even looking at something close to that- I think we're looking at some trees making up as much as 15% of all players in RWZ, while others are making up well under 1%. There's 8 ACs, and 3 trees per- that's 24 trees- we should see around 4% rep per tree- I don't need metrics to know it's not even in that ballpark.

But- ultimately, we can't even know because BW is hiding it from us.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
12.04.2012 , 07:26 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
You shouldn't be using metrics on normal WZ with normal players- that's what led to the worst nerfs in the history of mmos in 1.2. Most of those nerfs were based off complaints back when the game had only one level 10-50 bracket, and almost nobody had full champion, much less BM.

They shouldn't have made such large balancing changes on such bad info.

Frankly- they came out with a preseason. They should have waited for stats from the pre-season RWZ and then made necessary changes. Do you think sorcs, mercs and ops would have gotten such large nerfs early on to dps when current stats show them as almost never being taken for dps slots in RWZ? I'd hope not.

RWZ is where skilled players are- pvp should be balanced around skilled players, not the whines of people who weren't capable of interrupting tracer missile spam or who honestly thought sorcs needed a nerf to their STEALTH ability.

Pre season doesn't need to be balanced before hand, it's preseason after all it's like a big long testing ground so that when you entire season 1 of RWZ you have balance. Balancing before hand was idiotic and it cost them big on the pvp population of the classes hit hardest by the nerfs.


It would be like planning out months of test firing a space shuttle- but sending people into space before you did that- it's backwards thinking that makes me think they don't actually understand what preseason is for, and put it in there because they saw other successful pvp games do so.

Furthermore- they refuse to show any of their statistics off- which only means that either metrics don't exist at all or they show something that doesn't match up with what they're saying. Of course- because of poor balancing there may not be enough RWZ teams anyway for there to be good metrics to use.
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